I think many would have dove at it, missed it or knocked on.
It's like when the ball is on the floor, sometimes players hack it on, sometimes players dive on it. I don't think it is about bravery.

Well done that man.

You suck.

I saw your avatar and realised your post would be full of "Its not Kings fault" bull$hit...

you didnt dissapoint.........


I have no idea why people like you bother watching warrington let alone trying to discuss the game.....

"Well done that man"??????? Just picking the first point re King drawing in two men. You ARE kidding. He delayed the pass until it was suicidal. I enjoy debating with people who listen to argument (JWP, Dave T, Mark_M, Sally C etc). Those with closed minds like you and PW are not worth listening to.

I do not have a closed mind and I like to listen to what other people think about matters but surely you must realise Penny is way out of his depth

*shrugs shoulders*

I haven't got an opinion on this one way or the other as to whether he plays or not for me it depends on the opposition and his confidence, the positioning/defending is worrying though. Physically he needs to bulk up abit ala Gardner and Fox.

We can't be to over the top though, we all know his positives and negatives. Maybe him going on loan to national league team (when we have a fully fit squad) could work?

Okay then brainbox.

1. What did he do wrong last night ?

2. What try that we conceded was his fault ?

You've posted a load of crap half way up the page but you back it up with nothing, TV footage makes you look an idiot. King drew two men! No, he didn't, instead of drawing the 'one' man that he should have done, he took the tackle then when realised the opportunity was slipping away he threw a panic ball to Penny. The opportunity was the one that all good centres would have executed, sucked the defender in and fed Penny, taking the hit when Penny was on route to the tryline.

Nobody on this forum posts here claiming Penny to be anything other than what he is, a young lad who's working hard to improve areas of his game, all people like you & LWF can do is run him into the ground. Your that blinkered that you blame other peoples inadequesies on a lad who without any shadow of a doubt is working hard to improve.

such a debatable subject ! you could easily say the sky coverage showed Penny to be at fault with 2 of the tries one he was out of position came back from the sticks side of king and was therefore too late to impact gardner into touch, another you could say in attempting a one on one tackle you should always clamp the ball thus preventing the offload , Penny clearly had both arms round Gardners waist. Those that support or Choose to critisice are equally entitled to that opinion.
Penny burst onto the scene During an injury crisis and Gave his all,
he was refrshing, exciting, Passionate, and exactly what was needed at the time. Since then we have only really seen Glimpses of what he is capable of and more regularly seen what at present he is not good at.
Nobody can say he isn,t working hard to improve, that he isnt on a learning curve, its can we afford for him to be educated in first team games? As someone else stated earlier on this thread he seems somewhat
behind Riley in his development, this is due to the fact he had no developmnt in the amateur game from say the age of 8 learning the basic skills under the coaching of some excellent deadicated junior coaches
in the Town, then at scholarship level. Penny is an athlete that has become a Rugby league Player, Riley is a Rugby league Player.
Some of you more experienced posters on here really do need to have a good look at yourselves and the way you often berate those that have a different opinion, have you ever wondered why there doesnt seem to be many new posters appearing and when they do they often dont stay for long, perhaps thos great withe the statistics can tellme how many NEW posters we have welcomed in2009.

To be honest, I think the Penny debate could run until page 400 and we'd solve nothing. As speccies, we seem to have split into two groups where he is concerned, and I think it's that devisive to be honest, one camp are watching his performances and looking for mistakes, the others watching and looing for improvements in his game, and to if you like 'understand why things are happening' say. Last night, I thought Kings position was woeful, I thought Penny was stuck in the old 'rock & hard place' situation, and I bet if we watched the footage together, every error that you'd ping Penny for, I'd give you a reason for why I believed the error was attributed to King.

I've no problem with split opinion, what irritates me is when folk are so matter of fact about things on here, in this instance about Penny, you end up with statements like "We all know that his positioning is terrible, his running the ball out is awful, and his tackling, well ....". It's a far, far more complex debate than that, with many factors to throw into the mix, and no doubt we're missing some.

The way I see it, if the King/Penny partnership isn't working, which there's a feeling it isn't, folk seem inclined to pass Penny 80% of the blame for this, and 20% to King, and this is wrong. At worst it's 50/50. I think at times, his lack of physicality makes him easy pickings for folk to just make sweeping statemenst about him like 'he can't tackle' without looking at the progress he's made.

Spot On! How long can we wait for King to regain the form he sowed in the NRL and on his debut at Wire, hope Jimmy Lowes has the answers I dont.

So you are all agreeing that the King/Penny partnership doesn't work, regardless of who is to blame.

Surely the best solution therefore is change that.

As for Penny I can't make my mind up. I hold my breath in excitement when he gets a bit of space - its great to see a winger with such pace. Equally I hold my breath when the opposition fling the ball to his wing, but not quite in the same way.

The key problem is that whilst the kid is learning and improving we are dithering around and ending up exposed. If you want to be a serious contender for silverware this is unacceptable. I like him, I like his passion but I think I would rather he did his learning elsewhere for a while. For his sake and ours.

The Ade Gardner dissallowed try, Penny was too close to Matt King which created the space for Gardner to score but fortunatley for us a fraction of his foot clipped the line, if Penny had been positioned better Gardner would have had no chance of crossing as the option and space wouldn`t have been their for saints to attack.

Saints 2nd try scored by Ade Gardner, Penny ran in field to try and tackle Leon Pryce then all of a sudden he stopped and back tracked but by then it was too late as he had left his wing and that created the space for Gardner to score. Matt King was poorly positioned as well but we all know he is a defensive liability, if Penny thinks that their is too much of a gap in the defence then its his job to shout and wave players across, he shouldn`t have charged off his wing and come as far in field as he did.

Our left side is a defensice liability as well as being a virtually non existent attacking threat, Matt King is shocking but Penny is just as bad as and he can`t hide behind the rookie tag forever as he is racking up some first team games now and to me he doesn`t seem to be learning a great deal. Its a worrying combination that we have on our left.

I definitely agree about the 2nd one, he made a mistake, and realised a split second too late.

As for the 1st one, it is a tough one, as when he did stay out on his winger, Gidley just walked through. You often see wingers squeeze in at the corner, we do it a lot, so that is just part of the game.

i'm not criticising penny, but its the truth that the only time penny will do anything is if he has empty space ahead of him.

get johnson on the wing for safety and stability.