Think we all now know that we need a new hooker to come off the bench. Usually we blow teams off the park and can afford to take Monaghan off for 20minutes. However when it comes to around the 35minutes mark(when Higham usually comes on) and we are losing Smith is reluctant to put him on and take off Monaghan so we end up having both of them playing, so we are down a forward. Also Smith was then reluctant to bring on Clarke unless he had to so when he brought him on for Monaghan i new we had given up the game.

I like Blythe, he is powerful and has a fair pair of hands. For a young centre just getting his start in the team, he has shown more than enough to prove he has something about him. He has slipped up on occasion but thats ok at this point.

Some very interesting points in this thread, none of which were raised when we put 40 on Leeds at Leeds or beat Saints home and away. Largely the same players so I suppose the real question is:-

What has changed?

Is it simply the fact that we (gulp) lost to the Champions?*

*a team we've also beaten convincingly...away.

Because we are gash and big time bottlers.

Also we haven't got anyone who can score a try from his own 10.

.....apart from Atkins

Don't understand the demand for Riley to play. 3/4 of his tries scored last year were walk ins. The same can be said of any winger, be it Hall, Richards, Foster etc. The tries scored stats have little relevance to me. They simply state that Wire are an excellent attacking side. To judge a wingers strength you can look at the other 1/4, and to be fair Riley showed good pace on occasions last season to score. BUT, he is just too small for top class rugby in this league. His defence is committed, but not great, and he is vulnerable to kicks out wide, simply down to his height. At his size you have to be exceptional ball in hand. Riley is pretty quick, but he doesn't beat people, and has no real sidestep from what I have seen.

Smith isn't picking him for a very good reason. He knows what he is doing.

Blythe won't be around in a few seasons time, but Smith isn't throwing Evans in at the deep end. In two years time he will be first choice centre for the club. Monaghan was totally exposed for shocking lack of pace. I had no idea he was that slow. I'm pretty sure Carvell would have the pace to score from there. Bridge looked like Usain Bolt next to him. Monaghan also made some poor judgements in defence, leading to Wigan tries, and his miss on Charnley was shocking!

In terms of why we lost the game. We don't control the ruck area very well. It is our one weakness, and on occasion it does cost us. Using the Tomkins try for example, a more streetwise team would have conceded the penalty. After the freaky kick off the defence was bound to be disorganised.

Both teams are very close though. Wigan had a bit of luck on their side, and were clearly the better side on the day.

Wigan played well on the day, don't get me wrong. But it seemed to me that we'd resorted to the type of defence we endured during the final Cullen days in my opinion. Even without Briers, I thought we did some very good attacking stuff (usually with Monas involvement somewhere), but whether Wigan will admit to it or not, some of their tries should never have been conceded by us.

Prior to Saturday, we had showed absolutely no sign of allowing 40+ points to be put past us by anyone. Yeah, we've had a couple of poor performances, but Saturday was very poor indeed.

So the main thing we need to learn from Saturday is that when we play them again (which we will), our defence has to improve a fair bit. Allowing 22 unanswered points past you with such ease is just not an option.

But TS is a smart bloke, and now the CC is out of our focus, it could be a major blessing in disguise.

All of the below is said in hindsight, and is easy to say now, but looking back;

Hopefully we learn to play to the whistle. For Coley's try, Carmonet is on the floor and Westwood should have taken all of the doubt from the situation and burried him.

When the ball is ripped from S Tomkins' grip 5 yards from his own line, Matty Blythe should care more about dropping on it or tackling Charnley rather than appealing to the official

From the slip at the kick off, M Monaghan should drop on the ball instead of fly hacking it. Even from that ruck, Monaghan isn't awake and Carvell should just give the penalty away for not being square rather than leaving Tomkins the roll of the dice.



Like I say, easier said on here than done on turf, but Wigan we're better than us on the day and deserved the win. But I'm not too downhearted by the result, as I may have been if we would have wheeled Morley, Harrison and Briers out a week or two too early and lost them for the rest of the year as we would have done in years gone by. There's still plently worth winning for 2011, starting on Sunday

correct me if i am wrong but blythe stood around when charnley picked the ball up moaning at the ref when it was blatent that there was a wire hand in the tackle mouthing off that it was a kock on. charnley went thru the huge gap blythe had left. that for me sums him up. not got the game head, not got the composure and not got the all round rugby brain to play for a club which is looking to win competitions. he will do a good job for some team, but he won't do the job we now require. he would have been a shoe in 10 years ago, but i think he has missed the boat.
disappointed joel couldn't go the length. i thought that, along with king getting bundled into touch when three wigan defenders got to him were huge turning points. i wouldn't have had any other winger than king going for the line on his effort, bar perhaps lesley in his pomp, but he went in very tall, when i thought he should have been going in lower. still, great defence. i honestly thought joelmon was in though, and couldn't believe it when the beeb panned out and it was obvious he wasn't going to make it. these moments win games, and wigan produced more when they mattered.
on the question of the backline, i have always advocated king playing centre and atkins on the wing, ever since both have come to the club, and i think joel should end up in the centre next season too.

We have looked a little slack defensively for the past few weeks, letting in some very soft tries. Ok against quins and cas when we are rattling up 40/50 points in attack, but if you are not concentrating fully for the full 80 against the likes of saints and wigan you are going to get beat. Any mistakes you make (and boy did we make some!) will be punished with points. However, as abysmal as we were in defence the much vaunted and virtually impenetrable wigan defence still shipped in 5 tries themselves. Saints will beat them anyway and we will have the grand final.

Still cant believe Monaghan was passed over for Centre spot over for Blythe.

I know it's against the law to think such wicked things, but I think Smith got his selection wrong last Saturday.

We, quite rightly, aim to keep M Monaghan on the pitch for as many minutes as possible.
So the selection of both Higham and Clarke on the bench considerably limits our options.

I still think there were other choices despite the missing players.
Evans into right centre or wing, release Blythe on to the bench as an interchange back-rower.
Keep Bridge at centre and play Clarke as a half-back (despite his critics, he has performed very well there in the past).
Include McCarthy on the bench as an interchange back-rower.

I also question the psychology of 'pretending' Briers and Harrison were going to play.
The exact team was texted to me more than 24 hours before kick-off so, yes, it was known in advance.
I'd imagine it was a huge boost for Wigan to turn up on the day and find out. It's like us turning up and seeing the Wigan team without Sam Tomkins and Sean O'Loughlin; what a boost to confidence just before kick-off that would have been.

We had beaten Wigan with the Blythe/Monas combo outwide before. That's why they played that way.

Wouldn't have said it was the strongest lineup that could have been picked.
Monaghan is a better Centre than blythe, who is not as good Bridge.
With Morley & Briers out of picture most of week I would have had Clarke or Grix partnering Myler as someone to steady the ship while Myler and Monaghan pushed the attack.

I suppose main thing we learnt, even Hodgson can have bad games for Warrington.

Yes and Blythe was MoM on that occasion. People have short memories.