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FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > How much are the fans responsible? |
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| Quote: Wires71 "Please show me anywhere in my post that I mentioned the word graph.
The league positions are fact though, and back up my personal [iinterpretation[/i of the facts that as a club we are declining, not ascending.'"
Well, you have to be careful with facts as well 71. If you take the graph up to 2016 you would have to say that there has been no decline at all. And of course Jimathy described 2016 as a 'blip', but of course it would also be easy to say that 2017 is a 'blip' and ignore it.
The way people interpret the 'facts' is the important aspect - as well all know Russia didn't invade Crimea, there is no such thing as the holocaust, and the moon landing was staged in a film set -- all stuff you would laugh at, but believed by large numbers of people around the world. All caused by people with an agenda interpreting the 'facts'.
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "Really, what does that mean, I never mentioned facts? You followed my post about the graph and alluded to it showing facts in a conversation, joined up thinking sense. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post, or giving you credit that might not be deserved,
It's difficult to argue with someone that constantly states that the facts are the facts, and then uses their interpretation of the facts to back up their argument. You know like you did previously discounting the LLS as worthwhile trophy and using the data to compare TS's barren years (post 2012 in your book), with our peers.....who could argue with that?
I will leave it there thanks as it seems that all debate, even one asking is it the fans fault is stuck on a default path that ultimately lead to a none GF winning 'Rome' ....see you at the sit in'"
The facts I was referring to were the historic league positions which were shown in the graph. I don't know why you have such an issue with dealing in facts.
No-one has said they would join me at the sit in, so I'm not wasting £22 breaking my strike and going to the game for nothing.
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "Well, you have to be careful with facts as well 71. If you take the graph up to 2016 you would have to say that there has been no decline at all. And of course Jimathy described 2016 as a 'blip', but of course it would also be easy to say that 2017 is a 'blip' and ignore it.
The way people interpret the 'facts' is the important aspect - as well all know Russia didn't invade Crimea, there is no such thing as the holocaust, and the moon landing was staged in a film set -- all stuff you would laugh at, but believed by large numbers of people around the world. All caused by people with an agenda interpreting the 'facts'.'"
I understand your point, but surely we can all agree the league positions stated are accurate, and it was those to which I referred. It's not like I'm citing UFO sightings as "fact" or proof of irreducible complexity as "fact".
Rico get's in a huff when I use facts to back my argument up. But his judgement may be seen to be flawed as he was a Smith Remainer until having a recent epiphany and doing a volte-face.
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| Quote: Bigted "Just for a reality check please put up a graph of our performance for the 10 years previous to 2010.'"
Yes, our history and where we were 10 or 20 years ago is worth taking stock of, but kind of irrelevant with where we should be now.
Bradford were multiple Super League and World Champs 15 or so years ago. They don't expect that now though - they set their expectations based on recent history and the current state of the club.
Similarly, why should we be happy with finishing 7th-10th just because 10-20 years ago that's where we were? Where we were all that time ago is irrelevant for today's expectations given the current state/setup/playing staff/financial clout etc.
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| Anyone is free to interpret the data as they see fit. Whether you see this season as a blip, or last season as a blip - only time will tell in future seasons.
If you look at Leeds' league graph, it makes far worse reading than ours, but they have 3 SL Championships over that same time.
Rico already called it - the debate is heading to to our "non-GF wins". We've contested 3 GFs. Two of them, on another day, we could/should have won. For the toss of a coin we would have 2 Championships. Then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
But as cliche as it is to say, sport is a results led business. We didn't win. We have won diddly squat of importance. That's why we have the conversations about the LLS and CC. It's the wrong conversation to be having IMO. We are Arsenal, proud of our "4th place trophy", while Wigan, Saints and Leeds are winning real titles.
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| Quote: Wires71 "I understand your point, but surely we can all agree the league positions stated are accurate, and it was those to which I referred. It's not like I'm citing UFO sightings as "fact" or proof of irreducible complexity as "fact".
Rico get's in a huff when I use facts to back my argument up. But his judgement may be seen to be flawed as he was a Smith Remainer until having a recent epiphany and doing a volte-face.'"
You wrote "That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against." Immediately after Rico had written "Great graph, they are...". That suggests you are supporting Jimathy and his conclusions from the graph. The data points are facts (league positions), the interpretations are not facts, simply opinions. Hardly surprising then that Rico was irritated.
For the record, I too thought TS was deserving of more time at the start of the season. I disagreed with you about waiting to see how the year progressed because a) TS has brought us more success than we have had for a long time and b) the recruitment should have strengthened the team over 2016. I suspect like UR, I now believe he should go because of the team performance over the last few months. That is not an 'epiphany' - (which is defined as happening at a given moment), it's a judgement call over several months of shocking performances.
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "You wrote "That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against." Immediately after Rico had written "Great graph, they are...". That suggests you are supporting Jimathy and his conclusions from the graph. The data points are facts (league positions), the interpretations are not facts, simply opinions. Hardly surprising then that Rico was irritated.
For the record, I too thought TS was deserving of more time at the start of the season. I disagreed with you about waiting to see how the year progressed because a) TS has brought us more success than we have had for a long time and b) the recruitment should have strengthened the team over 2016. I suspect like UR, I now believe he should go because of the team performance over the last few months. That is not an 'epiphany' - (which is defined as happening at a given moment), it's a judgement call over several months of shocking performances.'"
Spot on on all fronts apart from the fact that I wasn't really irritated, well no more than usual.
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "You wrote "That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against." Immediately after Rico had written "Great graph, they are...". That suggests you are supporting Jimathy and his conclusions from the graph. The data points are facts (league positions), the interpretations are not facts, simply opinions. Hardly surprising then that Rico was irritated.
For the record, I too thought TS was deserving of more time at the start of the season. I disagreed with you about waiting to see how the year progressed because a) TS has brought us more success than we have had for a long time and b) the recruitment should have strengthened the team over 2016. I suspect like UR, I now believe he should go because of the team performance over the last few months. That is not an 'epiphany' - (which is defined as happening at a given moment), it's a judgement call over several months of shocking performances.'"
"That suggests" That is your interpretation. I was referring to the league positions which I am glad you also agree are facts.
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| All these negative topics re the coaching staff,the team, the club & supporters have only been fuelled by lack of comment from the club. The supporters, we are led to believe, are a vital & well respected part of the club. A well levelled statement from the club about our current predicament & future intentions to improve matters would work wonders.
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| Quote: ninearches "All these negative topics re the coaching staff,the team, the club & supporters have only been fuelled by lack of comment from the club. The supporters, we are led to believe, are a vital & well respected part of the club. A well levelled statement from the club about our current predicament & future intentions to improve matters would work wonders.'"
Guess thsts what the fans forum later this month is supposed to do, but i suspect not as it will more likley be full of hand picked people.
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| That man could be our next PR man . A few soundbites like that & the fans will forget what happened on the pitch.
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| Quote: chnloveEt "singapore difficulties some states Not To perservere For Falun Gong cbs san francisco bay area
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(HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty photo files)SACRAMENTO (AP) plastic ban senator alleges Democratic legal management 're squashing the man's try out and withstand up for practitioners within the not allowed chinese language courses spiritual movements being forced from the costa rica government of china and taiwan.The united states senate this morning shelved a emblematic image resolution condemning persecution to Falun Gong professional once lawmakers delivered a letter within oriental consulate notification the scale could possibly be damaging into contact amidst ca,arizona and as well as cina.Falun Gong, described as Falun Dafa, works factors of Buddhism, Taoism because programs of that inventor thanks to reflection and maneuvers to both mental and physical very well being. singapore regards because a risky conspiracy and a menace to social sense of balance and against the law some of the exercise in 1999.Sen. joel Anderson, A Republican against Alpine out side san diego, made an effort over and over again immediately to connect his answer to unrelated outstanding actions offered by dems, integrating one to demonstrate solidarity with your persecuted LGBT forum in Chechnya. 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Anderson vowed to carry on studies your man's squabble pick up, in addition to a tries to attach settlement it isn't offered by democrats.Falun Gong fans allege the fact that experts in china's websites appear to have been executed and simply most of the parts involuntarily cut down in order for transplants electric powered the far east federal emphatically turns down.of their mail to assist you to lawmakers, chinese language language officials condemned an trend to pressed lawmakers not to look at decisionerson.could very well far havoc the helpful contact between the condition of ca and china based websites and considerably injured the sense of chinese language program most people rlChnlove Real or Fakerl and huge discussion board in, talked about ones traditional, old september. 1 in addition to ok'd more name with consulate traditional at san francisco bay area.china and tiawan and consequently georgia posses deeply ties all the way through deal vacation, and therefore their precious governments get cooperating on endeavour to decrease varieties of greenhouse petrol by-products. Gov. Jerry dark brown achieved due to far east head Xi Jinping during a holiday in offshore trapped on tape.Anderson understood he so passionately required on the fight over a purely outstanding rez as a result of his longstanding interest to advertise our proper rights. he said he invented instructions for any chinese language ambassador in 2008 on account a constituent who is mum offers detained in asia with repeating Falun Gong. these toppers definitely isn't in print, broadcast, Rewritten and / or redistributed.the one thing for you to demonstrate; the particular chinese language language fed really doesn't admiration Falun Gong as a high risk cult, these guys relay Falun Gong for the reason that spot. content label is may be used to provoke and also vindicate persecution, But the main reason for the persecution deception everywhere else. content label is part regarding propaganda program in which to dehumanize Falun Gong, as well as lends support regarding the organ cropping claims.and yes, The asian executive truly does deny business in the akin to wood growing such as Falun Gong, but refuses to initiate a discussion on the difficulty facing a substantial core of whole story, and achieve organ transplantation during an see-thorugh way. outdoors surgery never get the better of the paid members, Both kids far east those through delimited speech chatting experience it really is. their precious fiances, One oriental but also an additional processed us, Were interested in the odd certain principles and after that cult similarly to behaviors the installed serious trepidation on relationships because mature wasn't supporters of Li Hongzhi, The founder surviving in exile in the states. the women continued to be compassionate to Hongzhi. all of the unions were not successful. could very well followed famous eastern historians consider vilify Falun Dafa for an conspiracy a great number of at overseas management meetings on s. The product reviews cant be found as upmarket as of predominantly detrimental living in cults us properly european moviehouses, And i don't know what to model of this propaganda combat involving Falun Dafa and chinese language Communist authorities. What i know as an accepted rlCHnLove.comrl conspiracy company over the past quarter of a century may be that i'd personally decrease anyone taken from feeling the weird to irrational teachings of Li Hongzhi.'"
Going to have to agree with this.
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| A good point well made.
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| Funny thread this looking back. #graphgate and blips vs trends. I suppose we did rise up a position from 10th.
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| Quote: chnloveEt "singapore difficulties some states Not To perservere For Falun Gong cbs san francisco bay area
goal path Fumble almost terminates Raiders Playoff hopeDallas used its definitely playoff still living while using the edges slimmest of appropriate modified Dak Prescott record a fourth put size an index message of to operate john just do it patio or yard Bailey fld 19.domestic Thrash sheet metal heroes have a Annual customary holiday ShowsBay spot thrash absolute favorites dying Angel bring back to toned in about silicon valley for the band fourth annual "another your demise Angel an anniversary establish" using Friday in addition sat date the other day.the nation ideal Sledding HillsTubing is one thing furthermore regular sledding can also be a. if you find sliding on a credit cards saucer will be your ideal down interesting, the particular sledding mountains for the majority of there are ample cold ski fields that will run using gravity.u. s most reliable Christkindl niche categoriesGet a examine of most five in the country Christkindl around.Best the winter season getaways In europeA official list of the greatest different places in to travel to this.most significant Offbeat special occasion rlChnLove.comrl destinations In AmericaA glance at five of the esoteric and very fulfilling to go on during the think of stolensThis on June 10, 2017 illustrates to home owners working Falun Gong breathing activities next to a square in town Centre Hanoi. (HOANG DINH NAM/AFP/Getty photo files)SACRAMENTO (AP) plastic ban senator alleges Democratic legal management 're squashing the man's try out and withstand up for practitioners within the not allowed chinese language courses spiritual movements being forced from the costa rica government of china and taiwan.The united states senate this morning shelved a emblematic image resolution condemning persecution to Falun Gong professional once lawmakers delivered a letter within oriental consulate notification the scale could possibly be damaging into contact amidst ca,arizona and as well as cina.Falun Gong, described as Falun Dafa, works factors of Buddhism, Taoism because programs of that inventor thanks to reflection and maneuvers to both mental and physical very well being. singapore regards because a risky conspiracy and a menace to social sense of balance and against the law some of the exercise in 1999.Sen. joel Anderson, A Republican against Alpine out side san diego, made an effort over and over again immediately to connect his answer to unrelated outstanding actions offered by dems, integrating one to demonstrate solidarity with your persecuted LGBT forum in Chechnya. Anderson has been a included audio at your demonstration Friday within the far eastern consulate in bay area.don assistance in the case when democrats vote not on your life, Anderson rumoured. They add have a to stop the minority becoming found out and they certainly choose have a that people the genocides oppose. Underland, A spokesperson to get us senate us president guru Tem Kevin de Leon, h seattle, rejected to actually brief review.congress have now one week got out of up to now these types of people adjourn through-out the year. Anderson vowed to carry on studies your man's squabble pick up, in addition to a tries to attach settlement it isn't offered by democrats.Falun Gong fans allege the fact that experts in china's websites appear to have been executed and simply most of the parts involuntarily cut down in order for transplants electric powered the far east federal emphatically turns down.of their mail to assist you to lawmakers, chinese language language officials condemned an trend to pressed lawmakers not to look at decisionerson.could very well far havoc the helpful contact between the condition of ca and china based websites and considerably injured the sense of chinese language program most people rlChnlove Real or Fakerl and huge discussion board in, talked about ones traditional, old september. 1 in addition to ok'd more name with consulate traditional at san francisco bay area.china and tiawan and consequently georgia posses deeply ties all the way through deal vacation, and therefore their precious governments get cooperating on endeavour to decrease varieties of greenhouse petrol by-products. Gov. Jerry dark brown achieved due to far east head Xi Jinping during a holiday in offshore trapped on tape.Anderson understood he so passionately required on the fight over a purely outstanding rez as a result of his longstanding interest to advertise our proper rights. he said he invented instructions for any chinese language ambassador in 2008 on account a constituent who is mum offers detained in asia with repeating Falun Gong. these toppers definitely isn't in print, broadcast, Rewritten and / or redistributed.the one thing for you to demonstrate; the particular chinese language language fed really doesn't admiration Falun Gong as a high risk cult, these guys relay Falun Gong for the reason that spot. content label is may be used to provoke and also vindicate persecution, But the main reason for the persecution deception everywhere else. content label is part regarding propaganda program in which to dehumanize Falun Gong, as well as lends support regarding the organ cropping claims.and yes, The asian executive truly does deny business in the akin to wood growing such as Falun Gong, but refuses to initiate a discussion on the difficulty facing a substantial core of whole story, and achieve organ transplantation during an see-thorugh way. outdoors surgery never get the better of the paid members, Both kids far east those through delimited speech chatting experience it really is. their precious fiances, One oriental but also an additional processed us, Were interested in the odd certain principles and after that cult similarly to behaviors the installed serious trepidation on relationships because mature wasn't supporters of Li Hongzhi, The founder surviving in exile in the states. the women continued to be compassionate to Hongzhi. all of the unions were not successful. could very well followed famous eastern historians consider vilify Falun Dafa for an conspiracy a great number of at overseas management meetings on s. The product reviews cant be found as upmarket as of predominantly detrimental living in cults us properly european moviehouses, And i don't know what to model of this propaganda combat involving Falun Dafa and chinese language Communist authorities. What i know as an accepted rlCHnLove.comrl conspiracy company over the past quarter of a century may be that i'd personally decrease anyone taken from feeling the weird to irrational teachings of Li Hongzhi.'"
Hi Mr Cullen.
We’ve missed your analysis on SKY.
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