Nothing wrong with the pack last night, Glenn Riley made a few errors but if we don't expect that from a youngster then we'd are kidding ourselves. We looked far better in attack when Russell came on and Myler was paired with ratchford at half back. I hope we are able to stick with this combination for a few weeks and then see where we are.

I can't see us challenging for trophies this season if we can't beat the top teams, and until we start to hit our best performances that isn't going to happen. The trouble is I think we are way off our best, silly mistakes in defence cost us and we failed to really test wigans defence when we attacked, especially in the first half. Mylers kicking game was terrible until Russell came on, then he showed he is capable with some decent kicks and positional play but he doesn't look comfortable organising the team.

there isn't much wrong with the pack, they gained field position that the backs failed to use. Aggressive in the tackle as well. Westwood was best player on the field, heroic.

Not sure I watch the same game sometimes. I expected threads bemoaning our halfs, our centres and our general team cohesion, but to lay the blame at the forwards door is just plain wrong. I would say we matched them up front for the first 30, and were on top for the following 50.

Hill. Waterhouse. Westwood. Great. Asotasi is being written off too soon for me, he was 'ok' tonight and has settled quicker than Waterhouse did. He needs to improve, but hoping to god he leaves is a big overreaction in my eyes. He may end up our next Rauhihi, but let's give him more than a few games to prove himself.

So the problems:

Halfs: woeful, Myler seems to get all the stick, but he's the best of a bad bunch for me. He's playing well below standard, but O'Brien was anonymous and Ratchfkrd doesn't seem to know how to fit in. Kicking game is none existent.

Centres: the halfs need players running decent lines, rapidly losing patience with Atkins. Bridge at least shows aggression, but without Hodgson/Briers creating that half an overlap, his ability to slip a quick ball through to Monas (which he is very good at) is seriously diminished.

Team Cohision: no one seems to know what the other is doing. Players left with no passing options and at least two penalties for crossing highlight this.

Smith: he needs to pick his halfs and stick with it. Russel on the bench just seems really odd. It seems he isn't sure who his best 1/6/7 is so is covering all bases. Russell shows plenty of spark when he comes on. But I feel we will need to change our whole style of play to accommodate him. He isn't a Hodgson, he is a good running option and I would guess support player. But he won't offer that link to the three quarters that Hodgson did.

Russell
Ormsby
Evans
Bridge
Monas
Ratch
Myler
Hill
Higham
Asotasi
Westwood
Waterhouse
Grix

Monas
Wood
England
Laithwaite

Is how I would line up for Hudds. They are a big side and we can't afford a full back on the bench for this one. O'Brien has had his shot for now for me and has been the weakest of the three halfs so we should stick with this 1/6/7 for a run of games.

To get over Lee Briers we needed to replace Lee Briers. None of our halves are fit to lace his boots. We are tactically naive too. 8 points down with 10 to go and we are given 3 chances to take the eassy two points and tap it all three times, for gods sake get it back to within 1 score and then throw caution to the wind.

I am glad i wasnt the only one shouting for 2 point penalties. Getting to within one score would have unsettled the opposition more than we did.

We managed quite well without Briers last year, I think it's the loss of briers and Hodgson combined that is hurting us. The whole team direction has gone.

Asotasi had a good game last night, watch again and see the work he gets through in defense, he hurts attackers when he hits them. He does need to take the ball in more, but again without the organisation of the pack by the 7 they look poor. A good pack needs a good 7 and a good 7 needs a good pack, the missing item is the good 7

This.

Both our main organisers and tactical brains have gone and we are now totally rudderless.

How many times this season have we been in good attacking positions and not been able to break down the defence? As soon as we get anywhere near the try line we clam up and look totally disorganised....players crossing, out of position...no dummy runners...slow passing ...etc etc etc

Tony Smith has said in the past that they don't concentrate to much on attack in training....the players sort it out amongst themselves....that's fine when you have a briers and a Hodgson to help organise and call the plays.

Asotasi was big in defence last night, but offered very little in attack.

My biggest concern with him is his lack of interest in the team. Two big dust-ups including Westwood in the first half and he was the only forward not to get involved. He just stood and watched. The leader of the pack would and should be in their putting himself about a bit and showing solidarity to his team mates.

But as for the 'I'd swap him for Carvell' brigade. No thanks. Big Gaz is an injury time bomb. He didn't do full-weights during the whole of last season and has already missed most of Hulls game this year. Great when on the pitch, but getting him on will prove quite a challenge for Hull.

Dare i say....

Could it be that Cullen left us a legacy of what a decent pack was?
TS inherited it but hasn't learnt how to put together another?

Now then, there's a controversial question for you all to rip into me over!!

Cullen put together more than a decent pack really, that's why we were viewed as perennial under-achievers when we never made any finals (or semis really) and the playoffs were an every other year occurrence for 1 game (2 when we beat Leeds and then got spanked at home by hull).

Do you actually think the team hasn't been brought on leaps and bounds since then in terms of recruitment and improvements of existing players? We have never had a problem attracting big names our problem has always been getting the best out of them, that is of course until Tony Smith came along. I wouldn't swap him for anyone and believe we will come good, maybe not in the short term future but let's see where we are at the halfway point of the season. For me Russell needs to play and ratchford and Myler given a shot in the halves for a few games. We are in desperate need of some structure to our attacking plays if we can get that going then I think we won't be too far off.

Could it be Tony Smith is a manager like Brian Noble or Ian Millwall?.. In the sense that each were/are good at man management and have the skill to tinker a structure and maintain its productivity at a high output?
Yet to date, have any of them proven that they can build a side?

Cullen took us as far as he could but I reckon he was ill-advised over halfbacks and his misfortune was inevitably playing hookers at 7.
Had Bridge not gone astray I believe Cullen may just had of done it. He was on the cusp but the Monaghan at 7 did him in the end.

Is Smith is playing the same dumb move when he throws Monas in at 7 too?

Still whoever plays a hb is gonna be in for flack cos were not a top notch front row unit any more.

The current team is very likely no better than it was 7 years ago.
We've gone backwards.
What gripes me is TS and everybody else knew that we wouldn't get any more than perhaps a season at best from Briers, yet we didn't take the opportunity to sign a player at hb to replace him in the closed season.
:doh:

Most of all we lack the penetration of a top class prop.
Unlike with Briers, the lack of another prop didn’t need that touch of hindsight.
It was blatantly obvious.

How many players who were signed by Smith played in the last two Grand Finals we got to?