In fairness, there's only one way you can go from the season in 2006. We won the lot, and would probably have added the Grand National, Boat Race and X Factor had we bothered to enter them.

For us to truly have declined, I'd say we'd have to go from a team that can challenge for trophies to one which cannot. While I fear that our abysmal start to the season, and lack of experienced coaching staff, makes it unlikely we'll challenge this year, I think the true test is whether we are back in the mix next year. If we are still struggling to make an impact on the competition, I'll concede it's a decline.

A one season blip doesn't make a decline, just as a one off trophy win doesn't herald the start of an era.

You say it yourself though: other teams have got better and that's why we have gone trophy-less since 2008. The likes of Warrington, Wigan, Huddersfield and Catalans are now amongst the top clubs; it's no longer just Saints and Leeds or Saints and Bradford, so that added competition has made it difficult to maintain a top two league spot. I don't think that league position is evidence of a decline as such, but more evidence of the league (at the top) becoming closer.

It's not all bad though as we have the likes of Gaskell (not ready yet), Lomax (played out of position), Makinson (best of the lot) and Wheeler (development stunted through constant injury) all coming through establishing themselves as first team players - that's why we aren't in decline and are in a state of stagnation IMO. They've been thrown in the deep-end and it paid of last year as their enthusiasm got us all the way to the GF, yet a run of poor performances and their confidence is shattered this season.

I'd be willing to argue all day with any idiot who suggests that a team with a half-back partnership of Gaskell/Loma/Holidayhiho (perm any 2 from the 3) is better than one with Pryce/Eastmond as half-backs.

You think Eastmond and Pryce were our halfbacks last year?

Oh sorry my mistake I thought Pryce and Eastmond were both St Helens players last season.

They were on the roster, of course they were, but featured to the smallest degree and, particularly in the case of Eastmond, any impact they made was largely negative.

We are not missing Pryce and Eastmond this year because, simply, we never had them as a partnership to miss.

No it doesn't

should`nt of sacked him he was doing a super job with a really average team..would`nt be surprised if they beat leeds this weekend tho...

. This isn't football where money buys success, it is an organic thing that teams have to work hard for'"

I suppose 'decline' all depends on how you view it, for example you say that the fact that we have allowed other teams to catch up with us as we haven't kept our high standard of players IS evidence of decline, whereas I say that the fact we are still challenging for honours (possibly not the season though!) is good evidence that we are NOT in decline -it's a fact that we have made every GF since 2006 and from the top of my head possibly every semi final in the challenge cup since then - so it's a matter of how you view the situation.

McManus has quite cleverly (IMO anyway) took all the pressure and sting out of the next three fixtures as the fans will realise that we have nothing to lose going into them. If Royce was still in charge then the amount of pressure that the players would be under would be immense and lead to even more misery if we failed to perform: now the players can refocus without the added pressure.

Whether that's a good tactic is unclear and I'm sure we'll find out Sunday.

I don't think the worst is over, but I don't think it could/can get any worse!

If Eastmond and/or Pryce were at Saints this year then Royce Simmons would have still been in a job at Saints.

The recruitment policy by Siants over the last couple of seasons has been poor. To an extent it is a consequence of believeing their own over-hyping of the ability of Gaskell and Lomax at this stage of their careers. People were calling for these two to be England's four nation half-backs yet now they can't hack it together at Super League level.

come on london

It was impossible to keep Eastmond (maybe it wouldn't have been had we been allowed a similar dispensation as Wigan were re. Tomkins), and Pryce wanted a longer, more lucrative deal than we were prepared to offer given he'd sat a season out injured and the extent of his recovery was something of an unknown.



The signing of Hohaiah wasn't one which I'd have gone for, but he was an established and high profile NZ international, so it's hard to be too critical of it and it is very early in his Saints career to write him off.

It wasn't just Saints fans rating Gaskell and Lomax. They were highly rated because they were performing well. This might be 'second season syndrome', or it might be that their confidence is sapped playing behind a beaten pack in a team that has been sent out with apparently little to no game plan / set plays to work from.

This Saints team, pre season, were widely tipped to be Warrington's closest challengers for top spot. That is in the knowledge that Pryce and Eastmond are no longer here, and in the knowledge that Graham has left a huge hole.

That they haven't looked close to top 4 material thus far, despite having a squad that was judged by many to be top 2, has to be down to the manner in which they have been prepared for games.

All this 'weak squad, poor recruitment' stuff has only really appeared after our awful start. There weren't many declaring this before the season kicked off.