Leeds were awful in 86 - very close to relegation, so I'd reserve judgement on any performance against that team.

I have the feeling Smith and may well enjoy the challenge of having to rebuild the Warrington side. He actually rebuilt more than half the Leeds side between 2004 and 2007 GFs (nine players from the 2004 side had left).

The difficulty for him or anyone else is finding quality players for core positions. With Leeds he was able to get Ellis and Peacock for example. The challenge nowadays is going to be getting the likes of them before they've really made it elsewhere, and unearthing a few junior stars.

Are the likes of Peacock and Morley still around because of the fall in talent in the UK ? I have been asking that of myself for a little time now, but I am not sure. If it's true, we may see some of our older stars playing for longer than we thought.

Another issue is the salary cap. If it is raised, some clubs will not be able to afford it. If it is not, we will be even less likely to retain our better players. Catch 22.

I'd suggest Hill and Currie are close to the equivalents of Morley, Peacock and Ellis. I'm glad we have those two in our squad and not playing against us.

Quote: Ganson's Optician "Sadly I am not in the habit of keeping newspaper clippings.'" Here's one for your cuttings collection: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/21759160 seems to be saying complete opposite to what you reckon he's often quoted as saying. I reckon you made it up.

Quote: Ganson's Optician "Sadly I am not in the habit of keeping newspaper clippings.'" Here's one for your cuttings collection: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/21759160 seems to be saying complete opposite to what you reckon he's often quoted as saying. I reckon you made it up.

This is a key point for me.

TS has more than once creditted Moran for his business and organizational acumen, and I would argue he has a better relationship with Moran than any other ''boss'' - including his time at Leeds.

Look at how the youth is coming through now.
He's prepared to take a few losses for the longer term benefit of the club. (Even though it hacks me off that we lost the LLS due to arguably 2 specific performances when a lot of the squad players were used).

If you've got good players, they've still got to do the business on the pitch. A top coach can get the best out of all players whether they be world beaters or average.

It's clear to me that even if we do have a number of retirees in teh next couple of years, we've got a lot of talent coming through and we've also got the finances - should we need them - to get one or two from outside.

Mossop, i'd say is similar morley peacock esque player as well.

Maybe Leeds were awful, but that victory was in the midst of a 15 game winning run by Tony Barrow's Wire which included two victories over Wigan ....... that team was AWESOME

Only trouble is he's a biscuit.

Leeds WERE awful in 86/87 - they avoided relegation on points difference. They finished in 12th place (out of 16) with 26 points, 15 behind Warrington who finished 3rd, the same distance in points behind league winners Wigan.

No you've gone Sal.........

I dont at all "seem to be arguing" that signing big name players is the hallmark of a quality coach....not once anywhere did i say that....you yourself said that cullen signed nothing more than "established players"... not big name signings........I "seem to be saying" that a fair amount of Cullens signings where still at the Club

and did you not think a Cullen Coached Wire side played well......?? I thought we played a very expansive and entertaining game of rugby League, with us utilising the full size pitch which was a Cullen idea also....???

What I am actually saying is Cullen saved us from relegation and assembled a much better squad than what he took over and he deserves a bit of credit for it, and not to be called "gladhanding" around at Widnes or whatever some dick called it....i'm asking him not to be called much more than that to be fair....you are the one who started saying Tony smith left leeds in a better blah blah blah....

this wasnt a Cullen V's Smith Comparison as thats quite stupid. look at the trophies, it was just a defence of Cullen, who did a good job, maybe when Smith retires or gets sacked or leaves of his own accord we'll revist the thread and then we can compare who left who with what.

But surely even you cant deny if Smith Leaves at the end of the Season someone will be left with a lot of work to do....?

Glad-handing, good one, not one you hear much in Wigan (leaves door open for anti-Wigan silly comments) but apt in what you say.

Fair enough that is reasonable. I do agree Cullen got us playing good rugby league and watching Warrington got better under him, it was still frustrating in terms of results, but we went from being a dull and often dirty/niggle team with inconsistent results to a team that played attacking rugby league and entertained the fans.

With Cullen I also liked the fact that he looked beyond us being a mid table mediocre side and was willing to take some risks and try and change the mentality of the club. He is a very strong personality and that drive complimented Simon Moran in the early years of his takeover. Simon Moran had the ambition behind the scenes but he is a low key personality not a public figure, Cullen was the public face of our ambition, he got himself all over Sky and was good with the media, he helped create a brand of Warrington as an upwardly mobile club. He's like the Kevin Keegan of rugby league, not the top coach in the game but he gets people to believe in him and can drive a club forward. So whilst I think he was here for 18 months too long, I do respect what he did do for us.



True but thats the flip side of having a strong core of players, it will happen to Leeds in a couple of years too. There is no point replacing Briers, Morley etc while they are still top players, and you can't sign or justify spending large sums of money on top young players in those positions while they are still there are they are not going to come to be understudies.

I guess as a Liverpool fan you will have heard this debate about Dalglish leaving Liverpool with a side that needed mass rebuilding in 1991 but what else was he supposed to do, should he have shoved Barnes, Rush and Beardsley out while they were dominating the league...

May I ask all you Cullenites how many Superleague coaching jobs he turned down after leaving the Wire ? Seems he has something only you Orfordites can detect.

“Shades of grey wherever I go

The more I find out the less that I know

Black and white is how it should be

But shades of grey are the colors I see.”

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