It's almost like everything was blown out of proportion for 1 incident last year.

Decent effort for most of the game but some woeful defence at times. We're improving but we won't be troubling any engravers this season. Nice kicking game from Patton. Ten point defeat about right, wigan looked a lot more dangerous with ball in hand.

Dec pattons kicking was better than start of the season,both wings and centre leave a lot to desired in defence . And williams had too much space and gelling and tomkins carrying the ball with one hand should have been punished.

Can I point out that we lost?

Or have our expectations fallen to plucky loser level?

Incidentally it wasn't Ormsby fault that his inside defenders were getting trampled by Gelling and Tomkins.

Same as it not penny's fault when tries get scored on that wing , i think penny would have dealt better with the atmosphere ,ormsby's like a new born giraffe with his legs

I thought Clark was going to run riot coming into an open game on a big pitch in nice conditions after twenty minutes...was disappointed. I think expectations have rightfully dropped. I feared the worst before tonight.

I was a little worried of our energy levels with 10 to go, a few boots are ready to hang up, we are still 2-3 players short of competing in top 3, but we still will get to business end of season, just don't think we have enough to get past top 4 at present,, but much better than last trip away at Widnes,,

Yes, we know we lost. No one since 80 minutes has denied this.
Our expectations are where they are, due to a shocking couple of months..

I'm certainly not blaming Ormsby for tonight's defeat. He's just not a winger/rugby player that's of the standard (challenging for trophies) we require.
Putting it in simple terms..... " 'e dunt offer much"

Personally, I thought we found a way to lose that match from a position of being in the ascendancy at several points.

We took some real sucker punches through basic lack of composure (2nd half kick off a classic), our left hand edge was again dreadful, our one-on-one defence was poor, we failed to deal with their offload game .............. but at times we looked the better team, we had a kicking game the equal of Wigan, big Roy put in a good stint, Higham went as well as usual and Ratchford looked the classiest player on the park.

But the concern for me is that our pack suddenly looks lightweight and intimidated. Even Hill doesn't seem to be forcing through the tackles with his old effectiveness. Westwood was good, but the others were at best effective. Even one of my personal faves, Ben H looks very laboured.

As for Clark, in the dying embers of the game I was waiting for him to explode downfield against a tiring defence and on the back of a quick PTB ............... and I'm still waiting.

Has there ever been a rugby team who knock the ball on as much as we do?

It was funny, now it's just embarrassing. We do well, get into great positions, and then knock it on like nothing I've ever seen.

Laporte Diamonds u8s c. 1994.

Don't hold me to that though.

I think they mean the Laithwaite one, actually.

Wigan have toned it down unbelievably to be fair to them. Didn't see that much lying on or ridiculous targeting of open limbs at all tonight for the first time since before Maguire's tenure.

I thought in the last 20 minutes the 4 games in 2 weeks had more of an effect on us than Wigan, we just looked knackered.