The two main things for me concerning this are :

1) increasing the number of games isn't an option if you want healthy teams & space for the cup & internationals.

2) There isn't enough talent around to produce 14 competetive teams & quality coaching staff.

So any new team would have to be at the expense of an existing one. The only way to increase the league to 15 teams would be to restrict the playoffs to a straight knock out. That would free a week for an additional round.

Regarding expansion or heartland (head says heartland, waist favours expansion), as long as they are sustainable then great. Widnes & Oldham dissapeared up their own s financially & have yet to recover, and a second French team in their traditional areas could work. I'd love to see a Cumbrian team in SL.

Arsenal
Chelsea
Fulham
West Ham United
Tottenham Hotspur
Charlton Athletic
Crystal Palace
Queens Park Rangers
Leyton Orient
Millwall
Barnet
Brentford
Dagenham & Redbridge
Bromley
Fisher Athletic
Hampton & Richmond Borough
Hayes & Yeading United
Welling United
AFC Wimbledon
Carshalton Athletic
Harrow Borough
Hendon
A.F.C. Hornchurch
Sutton United
Wealdstone
Tooting & Mitcham United
Enfield Town
Hillingdon Borough
Ilford
Leyton
Molesey
Northwood
Redbridge
Thamesmead Town
Waltham Forest
Wingate and Finchley
Corinthian-Casuals
Cray Wanderers
Croydon Athletic
Dulwich Hamlet
Kingstonian
Metropolitan Police F.C.

most kicking off at 15:00 on Saturday, same time as most of quins games

the london broncos got to wembley in 1999. they came runner up in super league in 1997. if branson hadn't pulled out, they would, i feel be further on in their development. branson pulling out was a huge loss for the club, and rugby league in general. this set them back years, and they are probably still recovering from it. despite that, they have more kids playing rugby league in london schools than ever before, the university on their doorstep has won the busa championship 3 out of the last 10 years and the amount of londoners in the quins side at present is as large as it ever has been. the crowds of 4k will grow again. i have been at the stoop when over 11k were watching them play, and they will be able to get these numbers again. these things don't happen over night, and are cyclical. rugby league in london is healthy, and quins will be challengers again, and with a team of mainly southern englishmen

Paul Cullen summed up the Cumbria thing very well on Boots n All last night - he said it's all very well the fans and media keep on saying Cumbria should have a SL club but really Cumbria needs to decide itself does it want one and is it able to put one together. Celtic got off their backsides and with the help of a wealthy owner worked their way up into a position where they had a viable licence application. That's what someone in Cumbria needs to do - however the towns are so small and the population spread over such a large area, I'm doubtful one could really succeed.

As for no. of clubs in SL, someone asked why was it limited to 14 - it wasn't. The RFL have said there is no limit on it, just they decided on 14 this time round based on what funding was available and so as not to risk diluting quality too much - two more Celtics would not be helping competition much. But next time round, they may consider going to 15 or even 16. Then we'd probably go down the NRL route - not playing everyone twice and/or having byes.

I think in part you are dead right SEB, but I think it needs to be in collaboration with a will from the RFL to want a club there too. The RFL clearly wanted a club in South Wales for strategic reasons and moved heaven an earth to achieve it, even to the detriment of traditional clubs. There just doesnt seem to be a will to repeat this in Cumbria. Remember Workington Town competed in SL in the first season but did not benefit from the new immunity from relegation or the 3 year franchise support. They did register 2 wins however, which I feel may be more than Celtic Crusaders will.

Other than granting their licence application, to what extent did the RFL move heaven and earth to help achieve a club in South Wales?

Hillingdon Borough
Ilford
Leyton
Molesey
Northwood
Redbridge
Thamesmead Town
Waltham Forest
Wingate and Finchley
Corinthian-Casuals
Cray Wanderers
Croydon Athletic
Dulwich Hamlet
Kingstonian
Metropolitan Police F.C.

Like these pull in the punters away from Quins!

Yeah right it holds 12,000 we could have the magic week instead of weekend!

for every person who goes and watches them, its another person not going to quins. but, also for every person who goes to b&q, or does whatever else at the same time, or with the same money they would use for quins, its the same scenario

I like to think of myself as an expansionist. At club level I fell that London Skolars have a better chance of expanding the game in the South East than Harlequins do. The Skolars have the ability to grow naturally and build a supporter base over time rather than the genetically modified version that is Harlequins.
RL has missed out over the last few years with the poundings we have taken by Australia in international terms. Other major sports have not performed on the international stage, (Ashes in 2005 and RU World cup in 2003 and Olympics in 200icon_cool.gif but apart from those years a tri nations series win would have been massive for RL in 2004,6,7. Just imagine a GB or England team of the year in the BBC awards or Peacock as BBC sports personality if we would have beat the Aussies and Kiwis in one of those years. England need to win a 2 or 3 tri nations to enable the game to be more widely recognised. My only fear with this one is where will the open top bus parade be held. It wont be London so will it be Huddersfield, or Wigan.

The RFL are heading in the right direction with Celtic, Catalan, Tolouse and the Edinburgh thing is the right area to Target. Glasgow, to some extent is a closed shop when it comes to sport just like London is. This is harsh but a team in Edinburgh will force more money out of SKY than a team in West Cumbria. This is a trade off between people through the turnstyles and broadcast money from SKy.

I reckon..

1. Millenium Magic in Cardiff to showcase the sport.

2. The previous SL roadshow games in South Wales to raise awareness.

3. Introducing a franchise system, and extending the league, to provide for a Welsh entrant and to sustain such a club through its early vunerabilities.

To be fair though:

1 - came about largely because Cardiff City Council and the Millenium Stadium wanted something to replace the lost Challenge Cup and numerous football events that took place there when Wembley was closed.

2. There has also been roadshow games in other places, such as Leicester and Edinburgh.

3. The license system (it's not franchises) provides for anyone to make an entry, not just Welsh.

Whilst I'm sure 1 & 2 helped the Welsh out, I very much doubt that that was in any way the driver for that decision. Using that argument, it could be suggested that the Challenge Cup final was taken to Cardiff for the same reason which I doubt.

As for 3, there are many reasons why we have a franchise system. Again, I'd be very surprised if bringing the Welsh in was a determinative factor. It should also be noted that the system protects all clubs in precisely the same way it protects the Welsh. Had we had this system when Halfiax imploded, they, as a heartland club, would have been afforded the same protection.

As a result I don't think the RFL have bent over backwards to help the Welsh out. No doubt they've assisted, but not to the detriment of a heartland club. It's not as if those clubs who lost out had particularly enticing applications with the possible execption of widnes.

A fair reply and I am sure we could debate at length. On the "enticing application" front, although conjecture, I am not convinced that the Celtic bid had little more to it other than "being in Wales" and was no stronger than bids from Widnes or Leigh. This is where I believe their inclusion has been to the detriment of a heartland club in existance since the 1870's and a skewed assessment criteria applied.