Are we taking the Koukash approach of lets talk up a completely unrealistic ambition to get media coverage?

Warrington getting crowds of 20000 odd is about as likely as Salford in the top 4.

There seems to be absolutely no demand for a larger capacity at Wire HQ, however you can't criticize ambition.

when i talked to the stadium manager i did mention about the corners getting filled in and he said that part isn't going to happen for ages as the stadium itself has to provide laws such as an entrance for emergency services to enter through the ground and also because sky need to dump all their in the other corner when they come to. would love to see it bigger but we got to make sure we fill the hj as it is, not just for the big games. we dont want to end up looking like huddersfield haha

you have to have short term, medium term and long term plans in any business. There is nothing in what is being said that isn't achievable with continued hard work and a successful team.

I disagree with you Sally, I think 20K inside the ground for top games IS achievable...but it ain't gonna happen without A LOT of hard work on and off the pitch...and its not going to happen overnight.

AIM HIGH

As the Guardian says it is a ten year plan, particularly in relation to expansion in terms of capacity. That won't happen for some time yet and only if/when demand exists. I can see the extra tier of hospitality happening within the next 18 months or so because there is a waiting list for boxes and I read recently that they are full most days for conferences and businesses, which ties in nicely with the hotel idea.

We are in a very fortunate position to own the stadium, many clubs chose to go down the council owned route and now face all sorts of problems, most notably Hull at the KC. I wouldn't swap the HJ for anything, wonderful asset.

And where are these new fans going to come from? They aren't coming now to watch Morley, Briers, the Monaghans and co when we're three times Challenge Cup winners in four years so I hope there's something pretty special lined up, Thurston, Marshall, Barba etc type players to entice the crowds in if we're aiming for 20,000.

I know how keen people are on here that in the next few years we will have 13 ex Academy lads on the field but the floating voters are not going to come rushing down to the HJ to watch that.

Although maybe if we're fighting to make the top 8 the public might rediscover their appetite for league fixtures again because every game will actually mean something for once rather than just being 6 months of going through the motions before the playoffs.

The borough of Warrington is big enough, plus we already have fans from outside the borough in Cheshire. The market is available. Sadly, Warrington is very much a football town despite our top level sport being RL. The number of people involved in football is massively higher than in RL. Hence us having to sign lots of players from outside Warrington into our Academy.

Massive community engagement, coaching and marketing is required which means investment. Perhaps investment there before investing in the stadium will reap the rewards. Build it and they come has worked to a degree with the HJ originally but it doesn't seem to have done with the corners expansion. In fact it could have been counterproductive as less chance of selling out means less pressure to get a ticket meaning some fans may make late decisions not to bother attending.

So the club needs to get out into the community much, much more than it already does - but that means investment, money the club doesn't really have available, especially after the Sport England cuts.

Maybe the club could come up with some imaginative ticketing schemes that incentivise the fans to do the marketing for them - by encouraging us all to keep on bringing new / non-regular friends and family to the games.

Ticket schemes are not going to get you 20,000 fans unless its Wigan and we can get them to bring loads over (maybe offer them half price if they leave before the end).

I wouldn't try to diminish the work the club does engaging with the community but I think you get diminishing returns with this in terms of being able to attract more fans. If a big programme of investment in the community would have 20,000 through the turnstiles then money wouldn't be a problem, we could borrow it if a lender truly believed it would pay off like that.

I would be impressed if we hold or slightly increase our attendances in the next 5 years or so. It will be a real challenge. I'm sure Bradford had a 10 year plan a decade ago, wanting to redevelop Odsal etc take them to the next level in terms of growth, things didn't quite work out.

Will Tony Smith be here in 5 years time? 10 years time? The balance of power between SL and the NRL has shifted now so the top Aussie coaches aren't coming any more. When TS goes we will more than likely be in the market for an English coach - if we are lucky it will be someone like McNamara or Daryl Powell, if not we might be looking at guys like Iestyn Harris, Jimmy Lowes, Sean Long etc. If the flow of top NRL players to SL has dried up then we will be reliant on the English market for players, albeit if we discover any real gems they will probably go to the NRL.

It is likely to be a much harder product to sell to new fans than we have had under Smith with his array of top class stars from both hemispheres. The likelihood is we will slip backwards as a club on the field, in the next 5 years. Whilst people may point out that other SL clubs will be in the same boat too, that is the whole problem, the game in general will find it difficult to grow.

As with all stuff I'm cynical about, I'm happy to be proved wrong but I have a feeling we will be looking at gates closer to 10,000 than 20,000 in the next 5 to 10 years.

What difference has the new corners made to your attendances? You averaged 11,166 for 2011 and then 11,430 for 2012, but I cannot find any stats for attendances this season?

But look at what the club have done in the 10 years we have been in the HJ.

From crowds of 4k- 6k a week at Wilderspool in the 80's and 90's...to crowds of 10k+ now. If we carry on in the direction we are going 20k should be possible.

Don't forget we are in the worst recession in living memory. Growth against this backdrop is going to be hard to believe....but things will get better (here's hoping anyway)...with an improving economy and a growing local population crowds should go up.

Simon Moran is no mug when it comes to business....that's plain to see. If he is backing this long term plan...then there has to be something in it. He's in the entertainment business....and he's rather good at it.

Its all being done sensibly with a strategy linked to proper data....its not pie in the sky, wishful thinking.

As I said previously..this is long term stuff..and its going to be hard work...I believe it can happen., and I trust the people running the business to get us there.

Nice plans. From what was left of Wilderspool to where we are now is already a big achievement. Also, if we are talking about a 22k capacity stadium why are we so fixated with it "being empty, we will never fill it". Firstly, that mentallity would have meant the HJ would have been built initially as a 6000 stadium but also (as has been indicated above) why cant it be a 22k stadium for other events. The MEN holds 21k max (10k for an average gig). Maybe Mr M could get some of his smaller group to perform down here.

Filing the remaining corners does have its problems due to legal/commercial factors but if anyone can sort it, we can.

We had one corporate hospitality box empty last year, but have filled them all this year.

I personally think the amount of wonga that we will get from gates will fall in relation to other income streams, which will become more important going forward. I like the idea of the hotel, it would compliment the business conferencing that we currently offer. Yes it would be nice to get bigger gates, but I think we are living in the past if we think they are the key to a more financially successful club.

At least the plans are in place should the need arise, a business should always be planning for growth. A 3% increase in attendances every year for the next ten would give an avg attendance of just under 15k, so in that instance a capacity increase would be required for the bigger games - 22k is ambitious though. Not that there is anything wrong in that!

I think the most important plans are for the boxes and the hotel. Are they planning on including an additional tier of seats with the boxes?

The hotel seems a good fit and would work well with the conferencing & banqueting facilities already in place at the stadium. What size of hotel would they be thinking of though? The footprint in the NE corner doesn't seem all that big...?

Am I right in saying that the stadium doesn't hold a license for concerts?

Yes I seem to remember something similar when we were goin through the planning phase. Not sure if this can be changed at all with another planning application....?