| FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Shopping List For Mr Moranovich ??? |
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Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10289.png |
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "It's interesting to look at the list of players that have made their debut over the past 6 years from your list. By my reckoning, there are only 7; Blythe, Tyke, Williams, Evans, GOB, Currie and one that you omitted, Laithwaite. Just to be controversial, I suspect that only 3 of these may remain with the club. That doesn't seem an awful lot for all the hard work we have put into our youth development program ? I wonder how we compare to Leeds and Wigan.'"
Thats because the places in the first team were mainly sewn up by the likes of:
Hodgson
Hicks
King
Atkins
Bridge
J Monaghan
Briers
Myler
Ratchford
Hill
M Monaghan
Higham
Morley
Carvell
Westwood
Waterhouse
Grix
all of these players were brought in to the club from outside
Which ones of those were mistakes and were taking the place of a Warrington lad that could have been worthy of a SL place? |
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Moderator
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "Thats because the places in the first team were mainly sewn up by the likes of
None, I am not disagreeing with anything you have said, I am simply musing about the number of players we have produced over the past 6 years. I am wondering if we should / could have produced more quality players.
Thanks to Mr Moran's largesse, we have essentially 'bought' a team. And I don't believe that is sustainable, or a good model going forward. We don't wan't to rely on a benefactor to buy players when needed, as he may withdraw at some point. If he does go, even if the club remains successful, we will still have a limited purse to buy new players. So that places increasing importance on the youth training program, which was why your first list of players set me thinking.
Whilst I enjoy watching the Under X's, I am a realist as well. I understand that the vast majority of these players will not make the grade. I am keen though for the club to play the more promising players. We need to know if they are good enough or not. And if they are, they need game time to develop. When we buy in the Hicks's and Kings, we sometimes forget that they too had to serve an apprentice to get to that standard of rugby. We have simply by-passed the hard work and frustration of seeing them make errors, by buying them close to their peak.
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Who comes from Telford?
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| Quote: The All New Chester Wire "Who comes from Telford?'"
I think he is the first we have signed from the Midlands, ex team Telford Rangers. Can play half or hooker apparently, but I think he was played off the bench at hooker in the two matches he has played to date. |
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Maybe he's better than Brad Dwyer...
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May i suggest a requirement for a new centre for the 2014 season...
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| Quote: Colin_Fishwick "May i suggest a requirement for a new centre for the 2014 season...'"
no |
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Currently, I'm not Fat!:14942.jpg |
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| Quote: Colin_Fishwick "May i suggest a requirement for a new centre for the 2014 season...'"
Nope |
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Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10289.png |
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "None, I am not disagreeing with anything you have said, I am simply musing about the number of players we have produced over the past 6 years. I am wondering if we should / could have produced more quality players.
Thanks to Mr Moran's largesse, we have essentially 'bought' a team. And I don't believe that is sustainable, or a good model going forward. We don't wan't to rely on a benefactor to buy players when needed, as he may withdraw at some point. If he does go, even if the club remains successful, we will still have a limited purse to buy new players. So that places increasing importance on the youth training program, which was why your first list of players set me thinking.
Whilst I enjoy watching the Under X's, I am a realist as well. I understand that the vast majority of these players will not make the grade. I am keen though for the club to play the more promising players. We need to know if they are good enough or not. And if they are, they need game time to develop. When we buy in the Hicks's and Kings, we sometimes forget that they too had to serve an apprentice to get to that standard of rugby. We have simply by-passed the hard work and frustration of seeing them make errors, by buying them close to their peak.'"
I don't get this argument that it costs more to bring players in from outside than it does to bring them through your academy. It's only relevant if you are talking transfer fees - which to be fair, Simon Moran has paid for us for some players, but others just signed on free transfers when out of contract.
Remember a couple of years ago Stefan Ratchford came through the ranks at Salford and they had to offer him "the best contract in Salford's history" and he still didn't stay, he moved to us. What would it have cost Salford to keep him? Was that sustainable?
Sam Tomkins has come through the ranks at Wigan but we keep hearing how Wigan won't be able to compete with what he can get offered in the NRL/RU etc? Producing players of Tomkins' quality is obviously not sustainable for Wigan unless they can keep him.
Being sustainable isn't about how many top young players you produce, its about the club being self sustaining financially with good gates, merchandising, sponsorship and a business plan. If you have good players coming through but don't have that then you can just admire them playing in other clubs jerseys like we did Harris and Sculthorpe, and Wakefield did Westwood and Ellis etc.
So if we are dependent on Simon Moran pumping money in and the club is not able to generate its own revenues, thats a problem, no matter whether we have the best youth system in rugby league, they aren't staying around Warrington. |
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| Quote: Winslade's Offload "I think he is the first we have signed from the Midlands, ex team Telford Rangers. Can play half or hooker apparently, but I think he was played off the bench at hooker in the two matches he has played to date.'"
Played for Crosfields too . |
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It gets to a point sometimes when you feel that each club likes to try a take the best youngsters from their neighbours, we take good Wigan lads, Wigan take good Warrington lads etc etc, then we supporters are shouting why has he gone there and vice versa. Its just the way it is. No club can or will develop a whole team through the ranks and make a crack team from them you have to strengthen with experienced heads. On another note three people have spoke to me since Sunday regarding Yawnion and one of our centres!
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I think there may be a spot available come the end of the year.
Remember this post come September/October time.
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Ryan Atkins to Gloucester RFC.
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Moderator
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[iBeing sustainable isn't about how many top young players you produce, its about the club being self sustaining financially with good gates, merchandising, sponsorship and a business plan. If you have good players coming through but don't have that then you can just admire them playing in other clubs jerseys like we did Harris and Sculthorpe, and Wakefield did Westwood and Ellis etc.
So if we are dependent on Simon Moran pumping money in and the club is not able to generate its own revenues, thats a problem, no matter whether we have the best youth system in rugby league, they aren't staying around Warrington.'"
]
[/i
Sustainable for me simply means having sufficient club income to buy the players and 'infrastructure' that you need on a year to year basis. So I would agree with your list of income above, but I suggest sustainability also requires a steady progression of players developed in the academy, through to the 1st team. Look at two examples;
1) At the moment we have four ageing stars from Oz. Mr Moran could buy replacements, but we can not, because they would take us over the salary cap. If we have a strong youth development, we have at least a chance of finding replacements, and salary wise, they would be a lot cheaper. The cost of Oz players has handed an advantage to Leeds and Wigan who can get a steady stream of good quality youngsters through to the 1st team
2)Then look at our need to replace some of our key players; Morley, Briers, Hodgson and Monas. They will probably all go at roughly the same time. If you wish to replace them, then how much will that cost ? I would guess around £200 - £300k each, which puts us close to £1m. Even allowing for an excellent 2012, where I would guess we probably made around £450k from our two final appearances, we could not replace them. In fact it is probably worse than that, because where will we get the players from ? But with a strong development set up we would at least have the chance to find them.
Simon Moran's money has been fantastic for the club because it has allowed us to assemble a top side. The success from the last few years has established us as a top four side. That in turn means we can generate lots of £ from advertisers and sponsors because their names are seen by large numbers of Joe Public at Wembly and Old Trafford. Spectators provide us with 10k plus attendance figures. The cups are a magnet for good players who are attracted to the club and wan't a part of that success. But to leave a lasting legacy, I suspect Moran will wan't to see the club as self-sufficient as possible, and not dependant on benefactors. That means maintaining the position of the club in the top four - for financial reasons as well as cup glory. In our current financial position and without Moran, we should be capable of buying 1-2 players per year to strengthen the side. But we also need those youngsters coming through as well.
Those are my thoughts
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