Yes Livett had a few belting games earlier in the season (Leeds away I remember), where he had a dynamic running game. He has offered very little since then for whatever reason. In fact both our 2nd row are a problem in attack.

Watching the tv coverage, the team looked disinterested from the start, was plain to see there was some th wrong..to be in a final and not give it your best is shocking

Livett was possibly the poorest player at Wembley but he is better than that. I think he was off because of his return from injury.
It would been harsh on Harvey but I'd had gone with Pomeroy in the final.
Big games ALWAYS find out who's injured and/or not 100% fit.

....and I'm sure Harvey is feeling a lot worse after his poor showing at Wembley than he would if he'd have been left out for not being 100%.

Pomeroy was not in the 19 man squad.

Wasn't he?...ok I thought
Atkins was 18th man.
Pomeroy was 19th man.
After Sika was banned.
Pomeroy was in his kit training on the pitch along with Atkins.

....but regardless it means nothing because I said "I'd" have played him.

Atkins was 18th man, Pomeroy 19th. I have no doubt that both will get their chance against Hull FC on Thursday. Westwood has been playing on one leg for a while and BMM looked to have sustained some damage. I can't see either managing a short turnaround and no doubt there are others carrying knocks.

I'm a big fan of Livett, miaw. I just think that we're currently stifling him, by playing him too close to the action. We ARE using him as a battering ram, in the same way we employed Waterhouse, a few years back. Get him almost on the shoulder of his centre, and push the centre and winger to the extremities. Livett needs room for HIS game to flourish. He's too much of an asset to just use him as a yard maker. Get some decent ball to him, and he'll devastate defences, like he did v Leeds, and even when he played stand off, before he got that big injury, last year.

In a year's time, a second row partnership of him and Currie will be devestating.

Going back to big game players, we've now lost 5 finals on the trot. Saints lost 5 GFs on the bounce with players like Long, Wellens, Cunningham and Graham appearing in most and some quality players appearing in more than a couple. Those first four I've named would be considered big game players/winners. In finals sometimes you just need the bounce of the ball and a bit of luck....are we being a bit harsh considering we've been close in all our lost finals bar the injury ridden Wigan final? We'll get some luck soon (but quality half backs would help speed that along).

Quite.

I think it’s time to be starting Philbin over Hill now

Whoa! That's a [ibig[/i call! I love Philbin but I think a lot of his impact comes from running at players who are starting to blow.

I can't see a benefit from that. Philbin hasn't shown that maturity to add influence as a prop as yet, however off the bench his eagerness is fresh and energising to the go forward.
We run with that until we have no other choice...then we assess his leadership attributes.

Agree with this, philbin is gaining confidence all the time and together with BMM and akauola (at least earlier in the season) adds real impact off the bench.

Hill is annoying with his poor discipline and referee moaning but we know what he can be and have to hope that he can snap out of it and just get back to what he is very good at.

We need Hill and Cooper making the yards again, like they did at Saints. Before someone points out that we lost that one too, we really ought, and deserved to, have won that game. We didn't deserve to win on Saturday.