Indeed so on a hinterland population basis. Building up that kind of a supporter base takes generations though and I doubt many of us would live to see it even if you kept up your current high standards on an ongoing basis. I remember reading a match report in some newspaper clippings from the early '60s that described Saints as always having had a small supporter base - it's taken 50 years of (mostly) unbroken success on the field since then to burn the club into the consciousness of the people of St. Helens to the point that a poorly supported club then is now one of the biggest and best attended clubs instead.

The most well known clubs over in this part of the world are Wigan / Leeds & Hull FC.

You was Champions last year, Challenge cup winners this year.
I don't view Warrington as a big club but definitely a successful one as recent trophies have shown.

No they weren't

Is there a universal definition of a what a big club is?

The one that ate all the pies?

Hull and not Saints?

Depends on who is setting the criteria doesn't it.

Jesus don't let the RFL decide the criteria...

Hull FC in New Zealand more so than St Helens.

Most Warriors who follow UK Super League follow Hull FC and it's the club most people have heard of.
Wigan also because of there dominance of the sport in England in the 90's.

--along with having a *world wide* reputation for there pie eating abilities as well no doubt--

Warrington are a top club.

You don't finish consistently in the top 3 and win more than 1 trophy in a short soace of time without being considered such.

But the big one, the real daddy, is the grand final and warrington have only won 2 out of 10 playoff games, let alone actually making the final. The fact warrington have only contested such a small number of actual playoff games in comparison to their peers shows they are still relative new comers to playoff rugby. But it is a step up. It's a big step up from league games and it's a step up from the challenge cup.

To truly be considered one of the daddies of the game warrington [ineed[/i to win a grand final. They need a title. If you think of this on football terms. If Arsenal hadn't won a title since 1955, but they'd won a few FA cups. They'd be up there, but there'd still be a divider between them and the likes of man united.

For all leeds failures in the challenge cup their record in the grand finals is outstanding, almost freakish. To beat a team of st helens quality in 4 grand finals, not 1 or 2....but 4! is incredible.

So the grand final is the big one and success in that is what sets you apart.

I said to one of my associates at the time, last year was the best chance warrington will ever get of not only making, but winning the grand final. A home game against 5th place to get there, then a OK not outstanding saints team in the final.

If anything warrington's top 2/3 status will be jeapordy in the coming season as all the major cogs are the wrong side of 30.

Indeed. But Moran seems committed enough to overcome that with signings of the paid variety, which very few clubs will even attept to compete with.

Ratchford is already in for Hodgson, Hill already in for Morley, maybe Darryl Clarke in for Monaghan as well and you'll only really need to find someone to replace Lee Briers. If anything I think it's going to be a bit random who wins SL over the next few years. Leeds are in the same position as you, they will have to replace Burrow, McGuire, Sinfield and Peacock very shortly. Wigan are already going through the mincer with their halves being replaced by inferior players. Saints are a couple of players short of really competing for trophies, despite the weekend's result.

Warrington's fans are obviously going to have their brash overconfidence dented by being dominated at home by a team you thought you were comfortably better than. But a solid win over Hull, which it will be, and you'll be 80 minutes from OT. I'll bet this time next week you'll have a clean bill of health, you'll have smashed Hull with Westwood playing well and you'll all be full of it again.

If anything I think NOT having the semi final at the HJ has done you a massive favour. If it were Saints playing at Warrington, or Leeds at Warrington, I would fancy them to win that game. Warrington, Briers in particular, panic at the HJ when it's close because there is so much expectancy. Away at Saints at a ground with no atmosphere and fewer Warrington fans to live up to and it's a much more winnable game.

Leeds still have a few good years from mcguire burrow and sinfield but they are already feeding one or promising replacements into the team. Saints, have sucessfully regenerated the team from the long/pryce days and will only improve over the coming years. Wigan play a structured game with tomkins injecting unpredictability, a change of halves will not have much impact.

Pah, stop it with the doom and gloom. There is no one at Leeds to replace any of them. Saints are horrific 90% of the time, awful backs and no halfbacks. Wigan will collapse into 3rd or 4th once little Sam trolls off to play Union. He spent another weekend down South with Saracens when you were winning the Challenge Cup. Warrington have as good a chance as any both this year and over the next 5 IMO.

Can't disagree with most of that. There's going to be a lot of very, very ordinary teams contesting trophies over the next few years and Warrington, while soon to be without a lot of key players through retirement, will be as well placed as anyone else to be amongst them. There just isn't the talent in key positions available any more to replace the likes of Briers, Pryce, Hodgson, Sinfield etc. etc. when they hang up the boots and they need to be replaced by mediocrity which will inevitably level up the competition.