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Quote: matt_wire "I've nothing against Hudds, quite the soft spot in fact since we sort of came up together after the 09 CCF. We've obviously progressed further while in recent years we've both struggled wirh patchy levels of success. So it is very disheartening to see so many empty seats when you visit there. A smaller, compact ground with sole focus on the Giants would be great for them, it wouldn't need to be any bigger than 10,000 though!'"

I know for a fact that sky don’t like televising SL there due to the poor crowds that doesn’t look good on TV

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Quote: Kevin Turvey "Perhaps a little churlish given the score yesterday but watching the tries I think Thewlis did incredibly well to score his after what was a terribly timed & early pass from Tai. I know he hits hard and puts in a shift coming out of defence but his decision making/centre play is still way off top super league quality. Probably the same with his decision to go on his own rather than use the support for his try. Not trying to be critical for the sake of it but hopefully this is something he can work on preseason as it is that difference in decision making/execution that makes a genuine top quality centre.'"



He looks better in tight games where his tough tackling & solid runs stand out. Not great in space.

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Quote: Big lads mate "I know for a fact that sky don’t like televising SL there due to the poor crowds that doesn’t look good on TV'"


Could say the same for Salford too I bet. But yeah, it's an awful look for the game.

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Quote: matt_wire "Could say the same for Salford too I bet. But yeah, it's an awful look for the game.'"


At Salford admittedly the seats opposite the main stand (cameras) aren't full but it's a much smaller stand and to be fair both ends are usually pretty full with a decent away following

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Quote: Barbed Wire "While they were bad, they didn’t really get a chance to do anything. We were relentless, not a word often associated with us.

Some stand out stats which tell the story, tackles made by our props
Absolutely.
I’ve always said the best form of defence is attack.
There’s nothing great about seeing a player making 40-50 tackle in a game.
That tells me we’re not controlling the ball well enough.
The perfect game is going from minute one to the whistle without having to make a single tackle.

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Quote: rubber duckie "Absolutely.
I’ve always said the best form of defence is attack.
There’s nothing great about seeing a player making 40-50 tackle in a game.
That tells me we’re not controlling the ball well enough.
The perfect game is going from minute one to the whistle without having to make a single tackle.'"


Well as a Hull fan, this is what we're used to.

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Quote: Kevin Turvey "Perhaps a little churlish given the score yesterday but watching the tries I think Thewlis did incredibly well to score his after what was a terribly timed & early pass from Tai. I know he hits hard and puts in a shift coming out of defence but his decision making/centre play is still way off top super league quality. Probably the same with his decision to go on his own rather than use the support for his try. Not trying to be critical for the sake of it but hopefully this is something he can work on preseason as it is that difference in decision making/execution that makes a genuine top quality centre.'"



It's not being overly critical. Against better defences he bombs 2 tries. Thewlis and him get tackled because of poor pass timing and not passing. I don't understand where this strong runner comparison has come from with Tai. He might go into the tackle harder but it isn't resulting in him making any more metres. Compared to Ashton, King and Thewlis he makes

Less metres
Less tackle busts
More missed tackles
Less tries
Less assists (2 all season)

I'm aware that comparing a winger to a centre isn't the most fair system as they have slightly different jobs

He has a great attitude, is physically strong and occasionally puts a big hit in but his shortcomings in skill mean he's a squad player for me. King isn't the best in terms of creating tries for his winger but he's miles ahead of Tai.

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Quote: Chris McKean "It's not being overly critical. Against better defences he bombs 2 tries. '"


That is true I think. No way those tries get scored against playoff teams in playoff format. His early pass to Thewlis was a shocker, it looked young school boy/girl rugby at best.

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Do Wrench's offensive qualities/poor defensive positioning weaknesses outweigh Tai's better defensive positioning/attacking limitations?

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I think this is a prime example where stats are not a great way of assessing players and are dangerous. You can't compare his contribution with wingers.
In tough, tight games he stands out. I would not wish to play centre against him unless I had lots of space. He's limited, obviously ... but he really does do some cracking bone shaking tackles that cannot be measured by someone ticking a box.

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Quote: Douglas Black "Do Wrench's offensive qualities/poor defensive positioning weaknesses outweigh Tai's better defensive positioning/attacking limitations?'"


Big tight game ...Tai for me & by a long way.
Personally I think Wrench has so much to learn & he might never get there ... let's hope I'm wrong.

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Quote: Douglas Black "Do Wrench's offensive qualities/poor defensive positioning weaknesses outweigh Tai's better defensive positioning/attacking limitations?'"


I'd probably say they do but only by a small margin and that's just my opinion. Although he did it a few times this season, Wrench isn't out of position every time. I've seen him put in some very good defensive reads. I honestly can't remember Tai giving his winger or anyone else a good ball.

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Well you can add Lindop to the mix as well. I agree that Tai is definitely a defensive centre and a good one at that. What won’t show on the stats as Smiffy says is that his opposing centre will be very wary all game of being hit by him. Now if we had a centre with Tai’s defence and Wrenchs’s footwork….well we’d have someone the NRL would snap up instantly.

Play off time with defence so important I’m happy to have Tai starting….as we saw at Wembley it’s King that worries me.

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Last two games no tries conceded is a decent effort, admittedly against poorly performing opposition BUT if it's a 'pillar' of Sam's Play Off Rugby Book, then the combinations out wide including Tai and King need to be given a bit of credit.

In Fitzgibbon's absence adding in Nicholson and Bateman, who's improving week on week, gives us even more balance, we should be a tough nut to crack with not that much reduction in attacking threat IMO as we have a decent running threat with Williams in a free role plus Walker, Dufty/Taylor Wray, Thewlis and Ashton.

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I think we’ve conceded 30 twice since Chambers and later Burgess, in 38 games in all comps. One being the Catalan game immediately after Chambers took charge.

Compared to three in the preceding 9. And to reflect that wasn’t solely down to the rapid decline of Powell’s tenure, it happened 3 times in his first 12, and again in the thirteenth.

Credit where it’s due to Burgess, Chambers and the club more broadly. Real shift in focus on defence, while actually remaining quite entertaining to watch with the ball too.

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