FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > New head of youth |
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| Quote: ninearches "I believe the new sports centre that opened in town 3 or 4 years ago was given a lot of money by the FA so football is what is provided for on the site.
The was also a statement from the RFU a couple of years ago that their aim was to get RU into every school in the country....so there should still be scope for RL to tap into schools if the intent is there.'"
I think basically it is difficult. RFU's aim was totally unrealistic. Heads of schools and PE Teachers still have freedom as to which sports are taught in their school. Grabbing a top bloke from another area and splashing a bit of limited cash is not guaranteed to produce results. Lots must have looked at Wigan and tried to replicate how they produce rugby players but it ain't just about "if the intent is there". Mind you you've got to try.
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| Lets hope that this guy can actually spot junior talent without you having to pay top dollar to poach them from other SL clubs?
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| Quote: The Chin's Back "Lets hope that this guy can actually spot junior talent without you having to pay top dollar to poach them from other SL clubs?'"
That’s sounding a little bitter there Chin... last year we only had two overseas players, plenty of our own academy and a few big names ‘bought in’...
How many other clubs had such a home-grown core in the last few years? Didn’t do us any good, all we won was a league leaders shield. Now we are restructuring the club from the bottom up and it’s looking promising. In the meantime while we wait for that to bear fruit, we’ll spend what we need to in order to chase success. Fortunately we can afford to, and that’s not something I’m going to feel embarrassed about.
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| With the occasional gem, we will always be in a position of weakness when we rely on signing young players that are rejected by their own club for not being good enough.
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| Quote: Wires71 "With the occasional gem, we will always be in a position of weakness when we rely on signing young players that are rejected by their own club for not being good enough.'"
This is not the case at all.
I've already posted about Warrington paying latge contract fees for young talent. Wire arnt after anyone's cast offs. TS made some bizarre signings when he had unquestioned control over ins and outs, but that era has gone. The board has a grip.
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| Quote: easyWire "That’s sounding a little bitter there Chin... last year we only had two overseas players, plenty of our own academy and a few big names ‘bought in’...
How many other clubs had such a home-grown core in the last few years? Didn’t do us any good, all we won was a league leaders shield. Now we are restructuring the club from the bottom up and it’s looking promising. In the meantime while we wait for that to bear fruit, we’ll spend what we need to in order to chase success. Fortunately we can afford to, and that’s not something I’m going to feel embarrassed about.'"
In the later TS years we seem to have a larger group of home-grown players being involved with the first team than for a long time. But I wouldn't describe it as a home-grown core. Currie, Cooper and Patton are in the core, then there are a lot of others who come in and out of the side but haven't established themselves as anything more than fringe players in SL.
I don't think this increase in home-grown players being involved is due to the quality of products from our Academy increasing, its been because the quality of our recruitment generally has declined so it's become easier to get in our team.
It's the reverse of what happened in the Cullen era. The early Cullen era, around the time we left Wilderspool was the last time we had a strong home-grown presence in the core of the team: Lee Penny, Sibbitt, Hilton, Wood, Wainwright, Noone, Mark Gleeson, Hulse and Stevens were all regulars in the 17.
By the time Cullen left, it was down to Riley, Wood, Cooper, Pickersgill and Mark Gleeson, but the quality of players brought in from outside had increased a lot.
Pickersgill and Mark Gleeson then left and in the early successful days of the TS era, we were down to Wood, Riley and Cooper plus a few around the fringes like McCarthy, Williams, Evans and GO'B. Towards the end of the TS era there was an increase in the numbers of home-grown players being involved around the fringes but still only a few in the core 17.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "In the later TS years we seem to have a larger group of home-grown players being involved with the first team than for a long time. But I wouldn't describe it as a home-grown core. Currie, Cooper and Patton are in the core, then there are a lot of others who come in and out of the side but haven't established themselves as anything more than fringe players in SL'"
Sorry, I should have used a different term, as I actually meant ‘Home Grown’ as in ‘UK-reared’. It was a response to an increasing trend of fans of other clubs claiming we rely on buying in young players, when their own clubs in fact rely on overseas players rather than their own products or Super League stock.
But yes, we haven’t really had a ‘core’ of Warrington academy players for a while, despite what seemed like a good bunch of talented youngsters from both local teams and as far afield as Wales and France. I think we put too much responsibility in the hands of one man, when we should looked at what works for other clubs with a proven track record for getting the young players to transition successfully. I don’t believe it’s purely down to the talent spotting, as you only need to watch early videos of the likes of the Evans Brothers to see what potential existed in the academy.
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| Be interesting to see if Rhys Evans & Brad Dwyer can regain their early promise under a different coach.
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| Quote: rubber duckie "This is not the case at all.
I've already posted about Warrington paying latge contract fees for young talent. Wire arnt after anyone's cast offs. TS made some bizarre signings when he had unquestioned control over ins and outs, but that era has gone. The board has a grip.'"
Hughes was an exact example of this. Tony has only been gone 3 months.
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| Quote: ninearches "Be interesting to see if Rhys Evans & Brad Dwyer can regain their early promise under a different coach.'"
i think that dwyer will be a great fit for us at the rhinos as their is a great player in there that was stifled whilst at warrington under tony smith
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| Quote: Wires71 "Hughes was an exact example of this. Tony has only been gone 3 months.'"
As I recall he was on loan at Huddersfield and his contract was to expire. Huddersfield offered him a deal and he chose Warrington.
You could argue he wasn't in Wanes plans but he was in Huddersfield and he certainly has furthered his career beyond that of a rejected youngster.
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| Quote: rubber duckie "As I recall he was on loan at Huddersfield and his contract was to expire. Huddersfield offered him a deal and he chose Warrington.
You could argue he wasn't in Wanes plans but he was in Huddersfield and he certainly has furthered his career beyond that of a rejected youngster.'"
Hughes got into the Wigan first team in 2012, and made the English academy and England Knights. But he failed to develop to Wigan's exacting standards having been loaned to Leigh, Workington and finally ended up at Huddersfield. Wigan had made their decision on him by 2014.
Being good enough for Huddersfield to offer him a contract, but Wigan having no further interest sort of makes my point for me.
If he was to leave Wire he would be going to Widnes, Hull KR or the Championship.
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| Quote: Wires71 "Hughes got into the Wigan first team in 2012, and made the English academy and England Knights. But he failed to develop to Wigan's exacting standards having been loaned to Leigh, Workington and finally ended up at Huddersfield. Wigan had made their decision on him by 2014.
Being good enough for Huddersfield to offer him a contract, but Wigan having no further interest sort of makes my point for me.
If he was to leave Wire he would be going to Widnes, Hull KR or the Championship.'" with players like Sargenson and then Gelling plus World class backrowers, it's tough to nail a spot...him going out on loan didn't automatically mean Hughes was to be ousted...it's a means to keep him fit at a top level for a possible return.
It may have even been Hughes himself that asked about a loan move, I don't know.
Wigan had to make a call on him as the contract was about to expire...with eyes on Tompkins and Bateman, he very likely became surplus and something has to give.
Hughes was great at Huddersfield and he was great here too, last season many players were poor, I don't think Hughes was the poorest by some distance last season.
I still don't think he is a Wigan reject junior to back up the comment you said earlier about us only signing flops.
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| Let's agree to disagree on Hughes. I don't think he was "great" in 2016. Solid defender maybe but was always prone to losing the ball or failing the play the ball correctly. As for 2017 he was abysmal and was one of the worst players but he was undroppable.
And I never said "we only sign flops". I actually wrote
"With the occasional gem, we will always be in a position of weakness when we rely on signing young players that are rejected by their own club for not being good enough"
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| Quote: Wires71 "Let's agree to disagree on Hughes. I don't think he was "great" in 2016. Solid defender maybe but was always prone to losing the ball or failing the play the ball correctly. As for 2017 he was abysmal and was one of the worst players but he was undroppable.
And I never said "we only sign flops". I actually wrote
"With the occasional gem, we will always be in a position of weakness when we rely on signing young players that are rejected by their own club for not being good enough"'"
I know you didn't. I didn't quote you, I just paraphrased it shorter to how I understood it.
Yes ok.
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