Is it difficult to coach an increase in line speed? Or is it enthusiasm and determination?

Well said. A coach won't make any difference if players have no desire. The likes of currie, widdop and King are playing games half ar$Ed, and that's the ONE thing you can't do if you want to win any game of rugby league.

Same goes for kick chases. They are a barometer of how committed the team is.

Players not giving 100% need to be dropped. It's corrosive and insulting. Powell has surprised me with how tolerant he is. Some players are taking the .

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

I suppose if the definition of a prop is “are you as big and effective (and serious?!) as Walmesley” then not many will qualify.

See the thing is, his point will come back around to the 80s and les boyd and kevin tamati, our sport is so far distanced from that version of the sport its not even relevant to make comparisons like that.

Here's your litmus test on this one, how many people were supporting of antony england? he ticks a few recruitment boxes as he was as big if not bigger than walmsley, and he came from the championship, which as you will see lately is a requirement for the usual suspects complaining about poor recruitment from the nrl, but they dont like it when we try to sign players from the championship.

a lot of these complaints and viewpoints are cyclical, people saying we shouldn't be tieing up money in the halves, we should spend marquee on a prop, couple years down the line when we still haven't won a gf, why are we wasting it on a prop?...

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.

Unfortunately being beaten by a less fancied club like Wakefield always gets the same reaction from those who don't understand the game.

It's always 'we played crap' and never 'that was a classic' as it would be were we Saints. On the day you were beaten by a slightly better team, this wee you may blow us off the park, who knows.

Some fans simply judge games and results based on jerseys, it's always been there but since SL it's become endemic.

On paper, Warrington is the better team and were we to play each other 20 times this season I would bet on Warrington winning most games.

What I don't get is why the games that are lost are always down to Warrington/any top team playing badly and never down to Wakefield/Toulouse/HKR just being in better form on the day and thus making it a bad game.

It was an excellent game and in the balance until Escare made it totally impossible.

The expression is 'live with it' it's the great unpredictable part of the game.

Early days of having a prop at 13, harrison used to play 13 ( i think he wore 13 at some point as well) and grix got slotted in and around to fill in gaps.

i think its fair to say harrison and cooper came through side by side, harrison struggled to nail down a first team spot as he wasn't the most mobile or direct player so wasn't an immediate slot in for playing prop but was probably too big to play 2nd row/defend wide out. it was only when smith came in he found a 'role' in the side.

Actually, when I saw the two line-ups last weekend, I kind of fancied Wakefield to beat us. Yes, we were missing a few players, but to be honest, we haven't played very well this season whoever has been in the 17, so I'm not sure how relevant that was. And I don't think that either the Wire team or fans underestimated Wakey. We have lost far too many such games for it to be regarded as any kind of shock or surprise anymore. Fans are always insular and naturally want to vent about their own side, but I don't think anyone would argue that Wakey were not the better side last weekend and fully deserved the win. Sets up an interesting rematch, anyway.

Yes, I said the same before the game on the actual match thread on here.

I think there are too many of our fans (especially those who inhabit Facebook) who think we are far better than we actually are.

I've said before, the best plan this season is to lower expectations and just enjoy the ride - Performances and results like last Saturday will certainly happen again, we just need to show improvement & a better looking team ethic come season's end for this year to be a success for me.

Because that's how sport works. You will always get fans of the losing team saying how poorly they played, and fans of the winning team saying how great they played. If a role reversal of the score last week happened in the Challenge Cup this weekend, I have no doubt that Wakefield fans would bemoan their team's performance and not give credit to Warrington.