I agree with Mr Zucchini Head.

I think the situation with Gale and Brough was a different form of late developer. These were players who were out of the limelight as they were playing for smaller teams but worked their way up to the top through impressing at a lower level. James Maloney was the Aussie equivalent, he was playing NSW Cup until age 23.

Although the myth persists that the top teams persevere with young players year after year until they finally come good, they are more brutal than we are. Look at Luke Robinson and Kevin Brown - both binned by Wigan at age 21, and they weren't bad players, Wigan just saw them as "next level down" players not Wigan players. How many games do you think Hulse, O'Brien or Patton would have got if they had come through at Wigan? I can't see them getting more than a handful. And that's not because Wigan care less about young players than we do, it's because they won't keep rolling the dice hoping someone comes good, they suss out quite quickly whether someone is really a Wigan player or not, and if they aren't there will be plenty of other young lads chasing an opportunity.

Inevitably sometimes this ruthlessness means someone slips through the net. Wigan binned off Sean Long when he was 21 as they had the GB scrum half (Tony Smith) at the time plus Henry Paul in the halves, and maybe they regretted that. Leeds also released Luke Gale although they had Burrow and McGuire in their early 20s and Gale could only have been an understudy.

Players with real talent like Long and Gale will find a way to make it elsewhere, once they are in a team when they get first team action. You rarely see ex-Warrington players do that - if they get released by us their careers fade away and people on here say their 'confidence was destroyed' by being dropped and so on. Guys at other clubs seem to have some kind of toughness and determination like Long and Gale that they will find a way to make it elsewhere, that Warrington players don't seem to have.

Good post. It is that they are tougher and more determined, or simply that they have more ability?

Take Gary Hulse as an example. It took us 4 years and 50+ games to move him on. Then the usual happened ->Widnes -> Rochdale -> Swinton -> Done. I really don't think Gary's career faded away due to toughness or determination. Just talent.

I saw on this forum just this evening a comment about Livett a player at stage 1-2 in the progression. Will he become a top SL player for us or follow the usual path? You would be brave to bet on the former.


[i
Standard Warrington Youth Progression
1) Player shows a bit of promise (not world beater by any means) but those who follow the academy tell us to watch out for them
2) In and out of 17 as quality just not good enough
3) Loaned out to Rochdale etc to get game time
4) Transferred to Widnes/Salford or below.[/i

This is so true. Often Declan Patton gets compared with George Williams. With the latter assumed to have been given patience and time to find his way in the game with Wigan and to develop into a England international, whereas Warrington didn't give Patton the same chance. What observers fail to comment on is the sheer difference in ability. Williams won Super League Young Player of the Year award in 2015 and capped, and was lifting a GF the year later an a WCC a few months after that.

Patton has a fantastic kicking game both long and short, I’ve seen enough to know that. His defence is fine too. He just doesn’t seem to offer a running threat or be able to control a game at this stage. Whether he will ever be able to do that who knows.

In his defence - which of our half-backs HAVE offered that on a consistent basis since Sandow?

Whilst I have seen the attributes you have described, it's absolutely pointless if he doesn't get his hands on the ball. Patton is never involved enough to have an influence on the game which means as a half he is usually being carried. I want to see him lead the team around but he just doesn't. He doesn't even need to be the most talented half in the league so long as he always wants the ball (like Myler) ad he would end up being a very good support player.

Is there 1 game in the 47 he has played where you can honestly say he has taken the game by the scruff of the neck and influenced the result?

....yes.

I think he played well in the victory against Saints last year. The previous year he bossed a game away at Cats alongside Ratchford.

Then he was a deserving man of the match when we won the hubcap in 2016 at Hull. Not mercurial, but steady and ‘Matty Smith-like’.

Of course that doesn’t mean he’s the answer but he deserves credit when it’s been due.

3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/

3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/

as an fc supporter, i thought he won you the game v us for the league leaders shield in 2016 when sandow was out injured, he was outstanding that game, kicking us to death

Wow losing Akauola is not going to help.

Quote Wires71="Wires71"3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/'" Yes Patton does face a long ban and the red card decision was correct. But just in case anyone missed it..... after the live incident, the replay of it was shown 11 more times in the Broadcast..... Eleven..... and mostly in super slow mo for effect.... The Liam Watts incident was shown four more times in comparison, and of that head butt, John Wells for some reason needed to state "we dont need to see that anymore" in his post match analysis. added to that Carney praised Radford for his honest assessment of the head butt, and seemed to have a go at coaches who say they don't see things, which coincidentally was what price said about the Patton incident..... I assume Carney knew they had shown it enough times on the Big screen for Price to make a knee jerk scathing pitchside assesment on a young kid kopping his first red card.... you can see why Tony Smith was highly critical of the Sky team and their impartiality...!!!!!

Quote Wires71="Wires71"3-5 game ban on the cards www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/spo ... nts_clash/'" Yes Patton does face a long ban and the red card decision was correct. But just in case anyone missed it..... after the live incident, the replay of it was shown 11 more times in the Broadcast..... Eleven..... and mostly in super slow mo for effect.... The Liam Watts incident was shown four more times in comparison, and of that head butt, John Wells for some reason needed to state "we dont need to see that anymore" in his post match analysis. added to that Carney praised Radford for his honest assessment of the head butt, and seemed to have a go at coaches who say they don't see things, which coincidentally was what price said about the Patton incident..... I assume Carney knew they had shown it enough times on the Big screen for Price to make a knee jerk scathing pitchside assesment on a young kid kopping his first red card.... you can see why Tony Smith was highly critical of the Sky team and their impartiality...!!!!!