It’s why I like to hope the coaches see something us fans have not. But given what some have seen and what a lot of us have read of his record it is a worry and more so because it’s a quota spot.

The operational loss won't stop us spending the spare money we have on the cap. And we have spare money available to bring another player in. 2 seperate things.

We "fans" do tend to be a bit miserable & cynical. I can't remember any signing that got everyone jumping in the air with glee. Too old, journeyman, chasing money, not played at any level, dropped a ball once, missed a tackle in a game 8 years ago.
We'll see.
I think we have much more ability below our 1-13 than we have had for some time.
Unfortunately ... I'd back Wigan ... but we'll be there or thereabouts.

That's where I am. I'd be very, very disappointed if we weren't in top 4 at the end of the season and fairly disappointed if we weren't top 2. In those cases, it just comes down to winning a couple of games (at most) and then it's 5th time lucky for the big one.

And before I forget, we also need Musgrove to consistently play to his weight for decent minutes. If he can do that I think our pack is ok.

Regarding Musgrove Burgess was quick enough to ship Bullock out so how is it that Musgrove has got away with many lack lustre performances.

Musgrove is better than Bullock. Mind you he ought to be able to do more minutes.

I don’t disagree with that but aside from needing to do more minutes he does not do enough after contact. He is bigger than Philbin but Philbin makes more impact.

Just watched the PNG game and i hope to god Dan Russell is just well behind his fitness at the minute.
His Tackling is very amateurish, and the fact he had his hands on his knees getting his breath after just 15 mins after making a whopping 5 tackles and 1 attacking run is very concerning.
But he seems more of a project with potential signing rather than an established signing.
If the team numbers are actually followed it's Currie back to 2nd row with Fitz and Yates at 13, I know shirt numbers don't actually mean that much but wouldn't complain with that, with Holroyd and Crowther as back up.

You may well be right, but a project signing would be one hell of a waste of a quota spot.

It looks like we we odds on to sign George Hirst from Oldham and were stunned when he opted for Wigan instead.

We then signed Ben Russell as an afterthought to cover the 2nd row position after we missed-out on Hirst.

I watched the game on Sunday and Russell was very average, and doesn`t have age on his side to develop.

Hopefully we will be surprised how well he plays for Wire in 2025 for us.

I hope you are right, like I said earlier I’m hoping coaches see something we don’t. My only real concern is he has taken the last quota spot and we are stuck with that and it would be hard to replace him with someone from here.

Imagine writing that without checking out the facts.

Your players will get praise once they start winning trophies.

Strange watching Russell. I kept wanting him to get his hands on the ball but he kept being the dummy runner (and usually a bit too early & flat). They actually scored from two moves where he was missed out. He is big and on the very few times he took the ball up he made a bit more ground than I thought he would. No crunching tackles but did make several tackles ... usually low. He actually popped up on the wing to score a try which was disallowed for being forward ... perhaps he was a bit flat again. Nothing to get everyone wild with excitement but I have been wrong before. Sam will need to shove a rocket up his rear end.

Yeah, i suppose we'll have to wait to see what he's like after a full pre-season with the coaches working with him, and some games under his belt. He's indeed a big dude so hopefully will develop under Burgess

In its simplest form, if you compare the team for 2025 c/w the team that started 2024, we have replaced Nicholson with Yates and Drinkwater with Hayes / Leyland. From what Sam Burgess has said, Russell has been brought in to give us 'options' in the second row.

The halfback situation is a bit 'wait and see' as it depends upon whether / how quickly Hayes can come back from a serious injury, but having Leyland there gives us a Plan B.

In the pack Fitzgibbon's fitness is clearly a concern. He only played in 17 out of 33 games last season (and failed to complete 2 of those), so we're going to need Holroyd et al.

Before the 2024 season started, we lost Kasiano. He's never been replaced, and we've missed not having a big interchange prop. Musgrove doesn't seem to punch his weight and whilst Yates, Philbin, Crowther and Holroyd all give 100%, our pack lacks a bit of size.

I'm not worried about our 3/4s. Lindop, Wrench and Taylor-Wray are there for backup and to put pressure on the incumbents.

In summary, I see us as being neither weaker, nor stronger, than at the start of 2024.

Maybe a little bit stronger as Lindop, Taylor-Wray, Holroyd were virtually unknown at this level.
Yates is a really good addition too.

Tend to agree, but are we strong enough? I don’t see us (or anyone) challenging Wigan based on our published squad for 2025. We’re probably in with a shout for second place but still have areas of weakness. Have other teams improved their squads more than us?

Quote ="Kevin Turvey"Have other teams improved their squads more than us?'" Here's the current list of 'ins and outs' from all the teams... https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/su ... -departure

Quote ="Kevin Turvey"Have other teams improved their squads more than us?'" Here's the current list of 'ins and outs' from all the teams... https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/su ... -departure

I know it’s been said a lot but we are missing a Patrick Mago type player. I’d feel a lot better if we had a bit more power upfront.

I don't think we are done with our business yet - I'd still expect to see a starting backrower added.

I think several teams will be better next year. Wigan will be outright favourites, Hull KR look stronger, Catalan look stronger, Saints can't be as bad next year surely? Wakey will be better than London and whilst Hull FC can't get any worse, I don't think they will be challenging top 6 based on their signings.

I think we need to improve just to stand still, but we still have cap space to do that I think. We're missing a great back rower and an impact prop. I'm not sure we will get the latter without some movement in the squad elsewhere.

Really hoping Lindop can kick on and be first choice centre next year, I don't think Tai is good enough to be a top 4 centre - though he is a very solid back up option.

I’m reading a couple of post saying we are not stronger for 2025.
I question this?!

Seemingly overlooking that we are going into a 2nd season under SB, with a team that he worked wonders with from near zero confidence from 2023.

This 2nd season will see progressed structural improvements and greater depth from our academy lads, the pick of 2024, who will have matured into another season, plus a new breed that will breakthrough we haven’t seen yet.

Simply just picking an outgoing player and comparing him to a replacement isn’t a complete measure of a 2024 squad to that of 2025.

I am quietly confident of a full good season, as Wire will not want to go into Vegas half baked.

Who am I kidding….
Wire to win the lot!!!!

Good old Duckie. In the words of Blackadder ... if all else fails you can't beat a bit of blind optimism.
Long may it continue.

I’m not so sure, I think we are done and will only recruit if someone exceptional becomes available or we need to because of injuries. Why I think this and clearly could be a mile off is our squad numbering as left no gaps which as happened a lot in the past making it obvious of an incoming. But hope your right and I’m wrong. And Abe as been quiet for a while now.