Mmm, under the current regime, only 1 year ago, we let Riley Dean go. He got 10 games in 4 years. I don't think he got much of a chance.

Not sure I agree, Ben Currie being the case in point, he was a regular first teamer at 18, he was clearly always going to be good enough and the club backed him. To a lesser extent, Philbin got plenty of game time as a younger player as well, he was always going to be a decent SL player.

Fact is for a long time the players coming through weren't good enough to be given the opportunity to step up.

On O'Brien and Patton specifically, they played 60 odd and 100 odd games for us, so they were given plenty of opportunity I think. O'Brien was the better of the two, but he wasn't good enough IMO to be considered a starter for a 'top 4 club'.

We have a long established track record of the following sequence with young players.

1. Promising youth player. Lots of hyperbole and exaggerated claims. 1st team contract.
2. Debut
3. Loan
4. Lots of argument about why they are not getting selected.
4. Another loan, maybe a few more games.
5. Exit to lower league.

As a teaser name the players in the last 25 years who have followed this sequence.

1. Promising youth player. 1st team contract.
2. Debut
3. Wins starting jersey / 1st pick.
4. International representation.

I can think of Phibin, Mike Cooper, Currie doesn't count as he wasn't home grown. Which others?

This my point I just don’t think we managed them well enough. I have often seen chatter about players we have signed maybe improving under our coaching, so the youngsters already discussed I think would have been coached better with the direction we are going now. As for Dean we had Hayes at same time and of course Drinkwater and club decided to go with Hayes. I think it was only fair to let Dean go because he was obviously going to be further down the pecking order barring injuries.

We have focused in the past on signing established players at the expense of developing our own players which was folly in a game that has a Salary Cap.

Some signings could be be classed in the vanity category but that was the prerogative of the guy who owned the club and we clearly missed having a Director of Rugby on our Board until Chambers was appointed.

Currie played for our Academy so I don`t understand why he doesn`t count in your post as a Wire developed player, as does Toby King who you haven`t included.

Rhys Evans?

Yes 3 games for Wales.

Chris Riley (England Knights 2012) ?

Josh Thelwis made the England squad in 2023 if that counts....?

I guess it depends where you think the issue is, for me it hasn't been about 'not giving them the opportunity' when a player has been good enough, he's been given that opportunity. We have underperformed for decades with our youth development, I think that issue is more related to Scouting / recruitment and development, rather than lack of opportunity. No point playing them if they aren't good enough can harm their development and could be dangerous for them.

I'm afraid reality is that there are always lots of promising youngsters who people bull up to be the next star. Wigan discard loads of youngsters and many are playing at various clubs. Perhaps the hyped up youngsters weren't world beaters to start with & we speccies are a bit gullible. When virtually all clubs fill their quota (of half their team) with foreign imports it tells you a lot.

Never give out any squad numbers again.
Hate the concept. Leave it to NFL.

I called it in 2022.
I said Dean is behind Hayes, because Dean was out on loan an Hayes wasn’t.
Hayes got his chance vs Salford away in the final game if the season.
I saw more raw intent in that one game from him, than I ever saw at any time from Dean.

Bloody hell RD I hope you haven’t hexed Hayes (ala D Patton).

Whisper it quietly, but even the mighty Wigan rugby sometimes overhype a youngster who doesn't end up cutting it.

Some lose focus, some stop growing, some get a bad injury, some just weren't all that to begin with. The trouble we will always have is that we don't have enough community clubs and schools rugby to develop this talent from an early age: until we match Wigan, Saints and Leeds I that regard we will always be having to sign up youth players from 'their' territory.

Anyway, I've seen this Bunty Afoa from NZ Warriors is up for grabs. He has a name that I can imagine being uttered venomously in the Lower Angel after a poor game, but is he worth a punt? 28 years old and 150 NRL games.

Interested to know which of their young players Wigan have overhyped.

According to the reliable Aaron Bower we're not in for him and it's between Saints and Castleford. Bizarre as he'd be a really good signing.

I'm worried that Burgess and Co think that we don't need another forward and we won't sign anyone else. We don't have a quota spot free for a start, do we?

We don`t have Quota space for another overseas player unless we release one of our current ones.

I'd happily release Musgrove for Afoa. I'd even bin Tai off - I want Lindop to start next year. He looks a superstar.

Couldn't agree more, I feel we are wasting our quota spots a little at the minute, Tai is steady and dependable, but is that adequate use of a quota spot? Maybe if Wrench hadn't done his knee again they would have backed King, Lindop, Wrench and Ratchford to be centres for next year. As it is they probably think Lindop is a year too young, Ratchford is a year too old and Wrench is a question mark due to injury.

Russell is a wait and see, but it seems a risk to me - I'm not sue he'll be first choice back row next year - again, is that good use of a quota spot?

Kind of hoping Abe will chuck us a bone and just say if we are actually in talks with anyone.

If we could replace Musgrove and sign a top back rower, we'll be in business next year.

Yeah i'd be very happy With Afoa, very happy indeed. But Yeah we don't have the room, Burgess won't offload his mate Musgrove so unless it's a new English prop that's wishful thinking.
I am curious who we might be looking at and in what position, for the spare money burning a hole in our pocket?

Spare money? we have just reported 1.7mill loss for this year? i would imagine we have seen the last of the big daft signings on mad money until at least the covid bailout has been paid back.

Depends how you define daft of course, Williams is probably the highest paid player in SL, and well deserved. We have spare cap space, whether the club decide to use it is obviously a different question.

Regardless of a £1.7m loss, such is the support of Moran & Middleton, I'd fully expect us to spend full cap, plus any dispensations, plus all marquee allowances next year and beyond - though the club and the sport as a whole needs to improve its finances of course.

im not sure Kai P-P has even played a game at Knights, and rumours are they are offering him about.