I feel that it will take a sit in and some fan anger for things to change the club see us as being in a slump and that new signings will get us out of it when its clear to see that there are some deficiencies in how we are approaching games so irrespective of playing staff it ill not change dramatically Imo

Absolute bullseye this. Said it numerous times, we were always the plucky underdog and fans and players gave their all.

But we didn't have a pot to pee in. So the were mitigating circumstances for poor performances.

What Smith has allowed to happen in the last 4-5 years is a total dereliction of duty end of story

The damning facts are

1. No GF win in 8 seasons. (2010,11,12,13,14,15,16,17)
2. No CC win in 5 seasons. (2013,14,15,16,17)
3. Currently 10th in the league.

How the performance team has remained intact baffles me.

To add to that - here's our league placings since 2010. There's a very definite downward trend since that hot 2011 season.

Last year was a blip for a number of factors. Following the trend, around 10th this season is actually where we "should" be.

Also, as you say, zero Championships won during this period.

Great graph, they are brilliant aren't they?

That's the great thing about facts. Hard to argue against.

slightly misleading over 2014

Graphs aren't facts they are a representation of facts, alter the scale bar and our predicted malaise we should be 7th this year not 10th as the Jimathay states, whether that is a comfort or not we are where we are I suppose and we all agree it's not where we want to be.

Spike up to 1st or second next year and this evaluate over a longer time frame and year is the blip and as for your damning 'facts' the graph shows that 5 seasons out of 8 aren't that damning IMO but this is a whole different discussion to how much the fans are to blame

Please show me anywhere in my post that I mentioned the word graph.

The league positions are fact though, and back up my personal [iinterpretation[/i of the facts that as a club we are declining, not ascending.

Just for a reality check please put up a graph of our performance for the 10 years previous to 2010.

We were the City of RL. For 35 years both clubs failed to win a major trophy then broke their duck at Wembley. We then went a few years being the Arsenal of RL, winning the odd Cup but not Super League.

I don't know what we are now.

Shat. Boring, predictable, clueless, great trainers.

1996: 5th
1997: 9th
1998: 10th
1999: 7th
2000: 6th
2001: 7th
2002: 10th
2003: 6th
2004: 8th
2005: 4th
2006: 6th
2007: 7th
2008: 6th
2009: 10th
2010: 3rd
2011: 1st
2012: 2nd
2013: 2nd
2014: 5th
2015: 6th
2016: 1st
2017: 10th (currently)

Really, what does that mean, I never mentioned facts? You followed my post about the graph and alluded to it showing facts in a conversation, joined up thinking sense. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your post, or giving you credit that might not be deserved,

It's difficult to argue with someone that constantly states that the facts are the facts, and then uses their interpretation of the facts to back up their argument. You know like you did previously discounting the LLS as worthwhile trophy and using the data to compare TS's barren years (post 2012 in your book), with our peers.....who could argue with that?

I will leave it there thanks as it seems that all debate, even one asking is it the fans fault is stuck on a default path that ultimately lead to a none GF winning 'Rome' ....see you at the sit in

Well, you have to be careful with facts as well 71. If you take the graph up to 2016 you would have to say that there has been no decline at all. And of course Jimathy described 2016 as a 'blip', but of course it would also be easy to say that 2017 is a 'blip' and ignore it.

The way people interpret the 'facts' is the important aspect - as well all know Russia didn't invade Crimea, there is no such thing as the holocaust, and the moon landing was staged in a film set -- all stuff you would laugh at, but believed by large numbers of people around the world. All caused by people with an agenda interpreting the 'facts'.