FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Tom Lineham |
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| Quote: Barbed Wire "Is Ashton safer at kick retrieval? Or positionally? I honestly don’t. His kick retrieval isn’t the best, and Ratchford appears far better at communicating with his defensive line. Support play is great, and like I’ve already said the new coach may prioritise this skill over other, but for our current coach and his current system, he can’t do what is required.
Ashton’s chance will come, but I don’t think it’s now. He can’t play the role that the coach wants from his fullback. While his pace is useful, he can do that from a wing. Lineham, who is dreadfully slow, gets plenty of chances in the corner. And, especially in the Leigh game, we went to the left early and found Widdop and King in a bit of room, he could turn those into points from the wing while he develops his craft.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Ashton. He’s exciting, and that’s why we buy our season tickets, to be excited and entertained. But the coach wants the pivot option. And it works, see Lineham’s try reel.
Re
Can you take over from Briers please
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| Yes top post
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| Last season Wire relented to fans pressure and played Ashton, he had an absolute mare and lost his starting spot as quick as he got it.
IMO Ashton plays when we can’t play with the first choice. The lad is fast and reads attack well, but that seems as much as he’s grasped currently, but he did show some improvement on defence vs Swinton.
So Ashton would go straight in for Lineham for me, as Mamo is required on the right centre, otherwise I’d have Mamo ahead of Ashton.
I would not weaken the combined weight of the pack and interchanges by having Ashton take up a bench spot. He either plays a like for like starting position or he plays in the reserves.
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| To be fair to Ashton he exceeded expectations last season and was unfortunate to pick up a long term injury. I do agree he isn't first choice at the minute regarding full back but he has potentially got 3 games to make it very difficult for Lineham to get his place back. I hope he takes his chance. I do think he is a problem that Darryl Powell would rather have than not, he offers us something different that can't be a lot of teams won't be able to defend against against without positioning a defender deep which opens other doors for our (cough) attack.
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| He did NOT have an absolute mare in the Salford semi final. He made one mistake and on that one incident far too many fans are hanging him out to dry. There are always calls for our young players to be given a chance. With our fans, I'd be reluctant as a coach as every single mistake gets magnified beyond reason.
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| Quote: rubber duckie "Last season Wire relented to fans pressure and played Ashton, he had an absolute mare and lost his starting spot as quick as he got it.
IMO Ashton plays when we can’t play with the first choice. The lad is fast and reads attack well, but that seems as much as he’s grasped currently, but he did show some improvement on defence vs Swinton.
So Ashton would go straight in for Lineham for me, as Mamo is required on the right centre, otherwise I’d have Mamo ahead of Ashton.
I would not weaken the combined weight of the pack and interchanges by having Ashton take up a bench spot. He either plays a like for like starting position or he plays in the reserves.'"
There is NO reserve team this season.
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| Quote: Douglas Black "He did NOT have an absolute mare in the Salford semi final. He made one mistake and on that one incident far too many fans are hanging him out to dry. There are always calls for our young players to be given a chance. With our fans, I'd be reluctant as a coach as every single mistake gets magnified beyond reason.'"
It was the wettest day for years (probably since records began). Any full back can make a mistake in such conditions. Bevan French playing for Wigan on the same day (who is a super player) did have a bit of a mare v. Leeds.
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| Coote in 2019 Challenge Cup Final is another example.
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| Quote: Douglas Black "Coote in 2019 Challenge Cup Final is another example.'"
No at all. It was a gorgeous day, Coote had a mare because he wasn’t match fit.
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| From 2022 under Powell, I think the fullback position will be up for grabs between Ashton and Ratchford. For now, I would let Ratchford continue as he is at full back unless he has a serious dip in form. Under a new coach with his own team and own ideas there will be a lot of tough decisions to be made on & off the field.
Especially, when you consider the amount of players out of contract at the end of the year and linked to the NRL (Clark/Widdop).. We could see a serious overhaul of players and staff, which I would actually welcome to be honest.. the team seems very stale at the minute & has been for the last 18 months or so.
We need change.
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| Quote: Barbed Wire "Is Ashton safer at kick retrieval? Or positionally? I honestly don’t. His kick retrieval isn’t the best, and Ratchford appears far better at communicating with his defensive line. Support play is great, and like I’ve already said the new coach may prioritise this skill over other, but for our current coach and his current system, he can’t do what is required.
Ashton’s chance will come, but I don’t think it’s now. He can’t play the role that the coach wants from his fullback. While his pace is useful, he can do that from a wing. Lineham, who is dreadfully slow, gets plenty of chances in the corner. And, especially in the Leigh game, we went to the left early and found Widdop and King in a bit of room, he could turn those into points from the wing while he develops his craft.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Ashton. He’s exciting, and that’s why we buy our season tickets, to be excited and entertained. But the coach wants the pivot option. And it works, see Lineham’s try reel.
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Ashton, for me, is not big enough to be on the wing neither is he a pure finisher. He'd just get bundled into touch all the time similar to Kevin Penny.
Looking at the stats per game at fullback for Ashton and Ratchford, Ashton makes more meters, takes more carries, makes more average gain and scores more tries.
Obviously there are no stats for positional awareness or communication however again, I think you're overrating Ratchford's ability to be a third pivot. I've seen him throw many passes into touch.
The one thing this team badly lacks is genuine pace. Charnley has lost his, Lineham isn't as fast as he once was, the same with Currie. We literally only have Ashton and Mamo who give us raw speed and that many defenders wouldn't be able to catch and both seldom ever play. You compare that to Wigan and Saints and the likes of French, Grace, Makinson, Manfriedi, Gildart, Marshall. Our backs literally have no pace.
If you were to put both players (at the same age) with the same attributes they have now into the NRL and made each side pick I would be confident that every NRL side would chose Ashton.
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| I think if we had more attacking ,running threats in the opposition 20 , the lack of pace would not be a problem. We need to be slicker at creating gaps instead of relying on kicks to the corner which make life difficult for the goal kicker.
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| Quote: rubber duckie "No at all. It was a gorgeous day, Coote had a mare because he wasn’t match fit.'"
I meant he had a mare, nothing to do with the weather. Experienced players make mistakes, young players make mistakes. They are not robots and if sport was decided by some algorithm we might as well all give up and play Fifa or some such game.
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| I don’t blame Coote. He shouldn’t have played and missed some games after it. The coach called it. I was thrilled to bits when I saw him down to play.
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| Quote: ninearches "I think if we had more attacking ,running threats in the opposition 20 , the lack of pace would not be a problem. We need to be slicker at creating gaps instead of relying on kicks to the corner which make life difficult for the goal kicker.'"
This relates to my point. While you call for slicker attacking, that comes on the back of creating space. Rugby League is number manipulation, it’s finding a way for you to have more attackers than there are defenders. This can be done by sweeping attackers from one side of the ruck to the other, but by far the simplest way is by taking people out of their defensive positions. Running harder, busting the line, leaving people on the ground takes numbers out, it then, makes defenders move in to patch the gap where that defender should be, moving in one by one, to plug gaps. It’s then a case of waiting for someone to not move in, or beating them on the outside.
Slick moves are great, but if it’s 6 vs 6 on one edge, the defenders just need to nominate and not miss their individual tackle. You need to find that extra man, or wait for a mid-read and punish it.
If we had a dominant pack, we could have Ratchford at loose with Clark and Ashton in the middle running riot, Austin would benefit also. It would be electric. But our pack just don’t give us that platform.
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