Nor can I, not one in the mould of Joyner, Norton, Ashurst, Pinner or Adams.

I suppose if you already 2 good half backs, then the need for a ball playing loose like Pendlebury isn't there and so you can go with an additional bit of beef at 13, which is what most modern sides do.

From Wire's point of view, if Austin and Widdop are both fit, then the need for Ratchford at 13 isn't there. However, if, like on Friday, Patton is in the side, then we are basically a playmaker down and moving Ratchford to 13 makes more sense.

You are probably right that Mike Gregory was more of a back rower, but it would be downplaying his ball handling skills to suggest he was simply a bit of extra weight in the pack - he could certainly pass a ball in the tackle and, until the latter days of his career, he was very mobile.

Its just come to me, but I suppose the closest that Wire have had to the type of player you are describing is Mark Thomas and ironically we didn't even play him at 13!?

Like i said, I cannot think of one.

Ratchford's longevity will mean he gets respect for sure.

I would put him in a tier with guys like Paul Wood, Cooper, Mike Gregory, Bridge: above Cullen, Forster, Clarke and Riley and below Westwood, Hill and Briers.

If Daryl Clark plays a few more years with us and ends up passing the decade in a Wire mark, I expect him to be up with Westwood, Hill and Briers.

Sally is obviously suffering with selective memory, though, to be fair, I think the peak Mike Gregory was probably before his time - Putting him at the same level as Bridge and Wood is hilarious though.

As for having Briers ahead of Ratchford. Well, one's a regular international, who has been our most consistent player of the last 7 or 8 years and the other spent 10 years basically typifying the Wire side of that time - very, very talented, but with a regular habit of frustrating every fan in the stadium with below par performances, mainly due to a huge attitude problem.

The days of your "old fashioned 13" got drilled out of the game almost 25 years ago (at International level, anyway), when you'd see Farrell go to No 6, in order to accommodate an extra tackler on the pitch.

We've seen it non stop in the last 15 years (in SL). At our place, Westwood and Harrison being examples. Two big blokes who "beefed up" your pack, when they were given the LF slot, but playing as an auxiliary prop.

Loose Forward Lives Matter

Kelly Shelford managed beef with skill (most of the time).

I'd forgot about Shelford.

Wasn't he actually a stand off for NZ and before he joined us though and ended up at 13 just to simply accommodate him, Mackey and Ellis into the same side?

Also, I'd throw Tawere Nikau into the classic loose forward category. Had all the attributes. Bit of steel and had the ball handling skills too.

Am I 'talking' nonsense, is my memory playing tricks, but are there any 'votes' for Simon Grix as a BR operating successfully at LF?

I vote this.

i'd say he was an out n out 13, but was so good you could shoe horn him anywhere and get a 7/10 performance

Yes he was class and a good example of the LF role. Pity that injuries caught up with him.

Edited for accuracy.

For me, Shelford was a stand off, not a loose forward.