I like Smith i really do, but this reminds me of Arsenal fans calling Wenger out. Just remember what Smith has done for us and what finals we have been in, yes the losses to the finals hurt but we got there. If rather get to a final and lose than not get to one. IMO if we was to part ways with Tony, i would love a Wane type manager and im being serious. Hes Wigan to the core and you can tell that with the way the players are. We seem like we dont have that at the moment.

Anyway i think this year we will go one better i have faith!!!

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophy for that sport though, TS hasn't. Not with us anyway.

As i said in my earlier post. TS's last chance this year for me. Moran surely has to be saying 'i put a lot of money in, i want the big one, and you are consistently not delivering it' at some point, surely? He is a superb coach, no denying that, he has been the best coach weve ever had, But, how long do we keep saying its ok because we won 3 major trophies in four years. Latest being over 4 years ago.

Or am i being harsh?

I never used Agar as a scapegoat. I simply used the term "Agar period 2015-16".

So I think it is fair to discuss, what many believe, is that Warrington in the last 2 years have looked unable to score at times and often disorganised and lacking an attacking edge in the opposition 25. Furthermore when the going is tough (like the GF) we didn't seem to have a different style of playing. The fluent flowing rugby of 2010-2011 has gone.

Shaun Wane in 4 seasons has never failed to make the GF won 2 SL Titles and 1 x Challenge Cup and a Double.
He has never won a League Leaders Shield though, he can't boast that.

No one is suggesting Smith has not done wonders for Warrington, and is certainly the best post-War coach. But things get stale and, well the facts are, 4 years without a pot.

No you are being realistic in my view. This forum is odd at times. It usually takes a few more years for some people to catch up with what others can see right now.

as with Cullen we risk sticking with smith for a season or more too long.

when we get on a good roll and dominate teams we look good and can compete with any team on their day but as the grand final appearances show we cannot seem to grind out wins in tight important games and certainly don't seem to be able to cope with adversity in these games.

I feel the this will be a tough season for smith as we will have a slow start to the season hopefully we will come good at the end of the season. I think that a fair comparison is to compare us to Liverpool, they often are title contenders and beat the big sides like Chelsea nal Manu and Man City but then lose against sides like burnley or Watford, they are the games that cost Liverpool and also warrington too. so is it ability or mentality and commitment that were falling short on ?

We tried the home-grown approach with Paul Cullen. Paul is Wire to the core and a good coach, to boot, but he clearly did not have that extra special something that gets you to finals and wins trophies.

A glaring example of our shortcomings was in the play off against Wigan at the HJ. Wigan had been criticised all season for grinding out wins & following the Flower sending off sprang into life with a Plan B that we had no answer to. We have been vulnerable against any opponents that have had alternative plans to fall back on ,& not just last season.

What's odd about that? Your OPINION may prove to be correct over time, then again it might not. I think that it's normal that opinion will change over time, it would be a sad world if people were so convinced that they were correct all the time and stuck rigidly to that conviction.

Surely, it's all about expectation and not just the trophy cabinet have we entertained or been unlucky will also sway opinion? 2017 may be someone's last chance saloon, however he stays on and wins the lot in 2018 they may have to change their tune. Alternatively, the let him have a 'job for life brigade' finally get fed up in 2020 when we are still (hopefully not) pot-less and call for his head.

I hope he builds on last year, but, if he doesn't win the GF I wouldn't automatically show him the door

I agree, "the Willie Poaching era" was incredible to watch. We played exciting rugby, winning games at a canter and racking up points. Best era from a Warrington team in my lifetime, only 1994 coming close.

What is the difference between this team and that? Put simply, the standard of player has dropped significantly, the Hodgson/Briers/Monaghan's of the world are not playing in England. Some teams set up very well and play 'structure' rugby, and do that very well and it's hard to break down without a bit of class. Sadly, we don't have that (we were close with Sandow), so we either fight fire with fire and play dull, structured but effective rugby, or play expressive rugby as well as a reduced skill set of players can. My preference, as stated at the start of this post, was to play entertaining rugby.

Sitting on the fence over the Smith issue. But IF we were to want a change of coach, who would it be from the list of realistic available options?

Powell, whilst impressing me so far, doesn't seem to offer anything more than Smith. Lovely attacking rugby but leaky defence. Seems to get the best out of the British contingent at the club but unsure about whether he's a master tactician.

Which other proven coaches and potential GF winners are out there? I mean realistically, not top NRL coaches like Bennett. Interestingly, British coaches have been more successful in the SL era anyway.

Any suggestions?

We should have Jamie Peacock in charge with Kevin Sinfield as his assistant, or vice versa. They won the treble and apparently Brian McDermott didn't have that much to do with it....

Yes fair point my opinion. I think Tony Smith has not rebuilt the team effectively though. Let's look at the 3/4 line he has assembled - it's not fit for purpose with 50% of it playing out of position and his star signing wasn't even fit for selection for 1/2 season. Quality is not there - just compare our centres and wingers to those at Wigan and Leeds. By and large we lack pace and the ability to beat a man, Adkins at least offers power and athleticism but it's the worst 3/4 lineup of the "top teams" by a long way.

Wayne Bennett ? Not at all impressed with this super coach's England selections for the Four Nations." If he plays in NRL he must be good enough for the England team ", not so & very poor for a top coach.

He rebuilt a team good enough to make two finals and win the LLS. Our 3/4s aren't great but we've the best front and back row (when fit), and our halves are up there with the best (of a bad bunch). Such is the nature of the salary cap. I'd prefer that balance than the other way around-the alternative is to be Leeds. No thanks.