Smith seems to be a coach who can win with a team assembled by others but fails to build his own team. All gone very stale, every coach has a shelf life.

He built this team: only 3 remained from 2013 GF. This team won the LLS, and got both finals. That might not be enough for you and a lot of others; fair enough. However, it's better than 95%+ of our history, and make my words, in years to come, we'll be begging for a team that fails as well as this one has.

Maybe so but where exactly, or more precisely who is Rugby League's Pep Guardiola?

Sorry Wires but I also think that compared to last year this year has been a relative success not a "continued failure" Most of the frustration is surely borne out of us missing out when we had a decent tilt at all three trophies, that's not the same as finishing 5th with no chance of making 4th after the split and a drubbing in the CC semi

Fair point. I would counter with saying we don't need a Pep Guardiola, Wane has showed that. Players playing in positions, team spirit, aggressive pack, and a squad capable of withstanding a number of absentees. Under Smith we could not even start the season with recognised players in their positions, never mind end the season such. We have zero pace out wide and a powderpuff pack.

If we compare this season to the failure of the last 13, 14 and 15 then yes it was a relative improvement but not success. Success is winning the big prize.

Some people who suggest this season was a success remind me of the teachers at my daughters primary school where all the class got a winners sticker pinned on them when they finished the 50m dash.

We need to be comparing success against the likes of Saints, Wigan, Leeds not based on the last 20 years of where we were.

That could start a rumour or three.

I would say progression but no impression.

The truth is you weren't a million miles away. Wigan were the better team, BUT Lineham was twice within inches of scoring from kicks and Gidley dropped a difficlt pass when he may have scored.

Fine margins on which games are won and lost. I do wish we (as a game) would stop this endless scooting from dummy half, Wigan were almost as guilty last night, it's the most one dimensional form of rugby.

You're a good poster when you're not attempting to score points.
A bit like us last night I suppose.

I agree with you entirely about the current style of rugby being served up.
I suspect our own reliance on dummy half running is partly based on knowing most of our three-quarters are not especially blessed with what I regard as natural, creative rugby skills.
This style won't be enough to win finals as officials are very reluctant, probably under orders, to keep penalties to a minimum and some of the advantage we are able to gain during the regular season (God I hate that term) is negated.

At half-time (when we were winning) our group chat was all about how little rugby had been served up.
Phrases such as "this is horrible" and "no enjoyment whatsoever" were used.

Strong defence should, of course, be rewarded, but I do think some radical reform may be necessary to encourage flair, creativity and attack in general.

I've heard talk of only one marker, reducing the 10 metres, dropping the number of interchanges, etc.
But I wonder whether something as radical as reducing teams to 12 a side might be worth experimenting with.

Yes constant scoots are now waring thin on me, Wigan played us fantastically at it last night when Russell or ratch came to dummy the Wigan markers were as quick to their feet as the player playing the ball. Not every time.


Were the personal out there good enough to win it? Possibly with an adapted game plan to adjust to who wad on the pitch. In hindsight I would not have includedsandow on the bench but philbin for a bit more size

Wort a note that there was no Westwood currie Dodds Harrison available tonight them in our pack makes for a closer contest in the forwards

In all the gfs we've not capitalised on our position or been able to deal with adversity which is more worrying than anything else for me.

God help Saints if the scoots from acting hb are suppressed.
That has been the root of their simple game for the last 2 decades.

That's what earned them the entertainers tag from their cheerleaders Eddie and Stevo.

We were saying the same. Haven't watched the highlights back, but saw the build up with Tanya Arnold before turning over and it's clear they all expected a free flowing game. At least from us! I'd guess most neutrals were disappointed on that level.