I disagree. I think Hardaker was running laterally looking for a) space himself or b) a runner. Briscoe saw this and provided a committed line in between two defenders which, when he got the ball from Hardaker, split us in two.

This, I think, isn't a set move more of an instinctive play between two very good players.

I disagree, he ran onto a short ball aimed at a weak spot in our defense.

I think that kind of move can be rehed and modified accordingly during a game to aim at a particular spot.

That is not 'a play' or 'a move' it is simply a simple carry towards the middle, only for Waterhouse to close his shoulders in. As soon as Briscoe sees that, it's just simple push and pass. Touch rugby will bring that skill set to anyone, even us.

What Mark is saying is that scripted plans are thing of the past in favour of playing what is in front, for example, a bad read or a number manipulation set.

IMO, we tried to be too structured. Too many times we went to the link around the back play when the defence is doing something else

Accepted, but pinpointing tiring defence cannot surely be coached as no-one on a training field can re-create the scenario as there are so many variables. Personally I think it was Briscoe seeing an opportunity, running the correct line and Hardaker seeing the pass and angle of run and released it bang on time.

I remember Riley, cant for the life of me remember who against, scooting from dummy half and doing exactly the same move a few years back releasing one of our outside backs before following up and getting it back to score. Surely this wasn't a move that Chris Riley rehes and is just 'instinctive running' by two players?

its all about opinions... When i used to play, we used to regularly practice putting the fastest player from our team through with a short ball in training.

The move would often be aimed at the side of the pitch that had done the most defending... It was often a tactic to pepper one side of the defense, then try these rehed moved on this side.

We also used to practice the short ball on the inside off a run around in the same places

These were done so we could use them on both sides of the pitch using 3 different passers of the short ball, same receiver every time.

Pinpointing a tiring defense can be coached and is... well it was anyway... and coached to us by professional players at the time.

Maybe these methods aren't used anymore.... looked like it to me though.

Really?

Wigan seemed to do ok last season with rehed set moves.

Two posters in 'amicably agree to disagree' shocker!!

Aren't we meant to fall out and call each other names, like so often happens on these forums?

Guessing you missed the entire 2011 season then.....

The most perfect display I think I've ever seen is the drubbing we gave Huddersfield in the challenge cup, we beat them 60-4 at their place, it was the ultimate attacking perfection. Everything we did came off including some pretty outrageous stuff.

Could say the same about the Qualifying Playoff when we beat them 47-0 at the HJ. Defensive perfection included.

Righto... I am still saying there is a difference between a set move and a set play and the difference is the vision and the intelligence of the players to use it whilst still playing what it is front of them. I have seen some teams work to a rigid set of six plays.

Teams do still use set plays (for example a set of six as an exit set from their own line) but the better teams are more organic and creative in their approach play especially in the opposition half. The best examples of this in recent years is the free-wheeling rugby played by our own team during 2011 when we had Monas, Briers and Hodgson all at the top of their game.

For reference, from what I can see at the U16s they only regularly use four or five set moves (in some cases they are no more complex than just pass forms) but they are still being encouraged to watch what the A, B, C defenders are doing in relation to their hip positions and then make decisions based on that. Certainly in my experience you can base your whole attack on a team that willingly pushes on all the space around the ball carrier and inherently that creates doubt in defenders minds.

....and regardless Tony Smith does say openly that he doesn't coach attack so make of that what you will.

i think this thread has now come full circle

The time period being between the Premiership win and 2009.

2011 falls out of that period.

perhaps I should have started it "I had. .."

Personally I remember Leeds 6 - 42 wire from that season as the standout wire performance. Sinfield played a good kicking game and we still kept coming back at them, field position management, attack and defence at it's very best.