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Quote: Uncle Rico "
My proposition is that we need to be aiming for promoting from within as a first alternative rather than a last resort and that the chequebook isn't the only answer particularly given the state of RL generally and certainly care should be taken when paying out for 'the finished article''"


Is that any different from what we have done anyway?

Wood, Riley, Harrison, Cooper, McCarthy, Blythe, Evans, O'Brien, Williams, Currie - all of these have come through our Academy and been given their chance in the first team. Then there are guys like Penny, Pickersgill, Mitchell and going back further, Noone, Sibbit, Hulse, Alstead and Mark Gleeson, all of whom played significant time in the first team.

Some of these players were not up to being in a top side and you could also say some of the current ones that are being given a chance are not up to being in a top side either, but at least they are getting their chances. You cannot accuse Warrington of only seeing promoting academy players as a last resort - if anything we tend to promote too many and would benefit from being more ruthless, there are some lads who get their chance at Warrington that would be filtered out sooner at a club like Leeds or Saints.

As for the finished article, it comes in two forms:
- high promise that has come through other clubs Academies, that just needs polishing (Westwood, Grix, Hill, Atkins, Ratchford, Myler)
- established top class players (Morley, King, Hicks, the Monaghans, Hodgson, Waterhouse).

All successful sides that win trophies have a balance of the three types of player - promoted academy products, high promise from other clubs, established top class players. Go back and look at every successful side - Wigan in the 80s and 90s, Bradford/Saints in the 2000s, Leeds in the past 10 years, they all fit that bill and so do we under Tony Smith. We are not underpromoting home grown players compared to them.

But you will not win trophies without those finished article players.

Fans like the idea of a team full of home grown products but it will not win trophies. Even Man United when they brought through Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Nevilles etc would have not been successful without the likes of Cantona, Schmeichel, Keane.

The alternative reality in the past few years would have been that rather than sign those finished article players we could have stuck with Sibbit, Noone, Penny, Pickersgill and so on instead. We would have won nothing.

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[color=#FF0000:3s5hr9kj]Have you noticed, you can never find a radical priest when you need one.[/color:3s5hr9kj]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_63644.jpg



Quote: BigO "Morning,

My sources tell me Mr Moranovich is currently in the land down under . Its not a question of WHO we want ( Thurston, Cronk, Smith, Burgess & SBW) but WHO do u think we will get???? ........realistically?
Being realistic not very much chance for those names. Why would they? With the cash available over there, I think you’d have to do a BA Baracus on them, cosh them on the head and drag them on a plane. Still, the devil drives, and all that.
icon_twisted.gif icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Horatio Yed "Golborne isn't exactly a million miles away though'"



True. Well if you include it in our area, that would make 10 U19's from a total of 31.

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Quote: sally cinnamon "Is that any different from what we have done anyway?

Wood, Riley, Harrison, Cooper, McCarthy, Blythe, Evans, O'Brien, Williams, Currie - all of these have come through our Academy and been given their chance in the first team. Then there are guys like Penny, Pickersgill, Mitchell and going back further, Noone, Sibbit, Hulse, Alstead and Mark Gleeson, all of whom played significant time in the first team.

Some of these players were not up to being in a top side and you could also say some of the current ones that are being given a chance are not up to being in a top side either, but at least they are getting their chances. You cannot accuse Warrington of only seeing promoting academy players as a last resort - if anything we tend to promote too many and would benefit from being more ruthless, there are some lads who get their chance at Warrington that would be filtered out sooner at a club like Leeds or Saints.

As for the finished article, it comes in two forms



It's interesting to look at the list of players that have made their debut over the past 6 years from your list. By my reckoning, there are only 7; Blythe, Tyke, Williams, Evans, GOB, Currie and one that you omitted, Laithwaite. Just to be controversial, I suspect that only 3 of these may remain with the club. That doesn't seem an awful lot for all the hard work we have put into our youth development program ? I wonder how we compare to Leeds and Wigan.

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Quote: sally cinnamon "Is that any different from what we have done anyway?

I'm not really disagreeing with your point of view, or indeed accusing Warrington of anything, far from it although before Simon Moran's investment we were operating under a different business model.

My response was questioning the need to go to the cheque book as a default setting and if you re read my post I said promotion from within should be an aim, not the be all and end all. I certainly wouldn't have missed watching John Bevan, Jonathan Davies or Chris Hicks, to name an easy three, for the world

Further, I wouldn't question Morleys influence, impact or committment on the Wire just because he's from Salford, but, and I know it's 'tongue in cheek' a "shopping list for Moranovich" leaves me a little cold, the cross reference to the Chelsea Oligarch and his buying habits, not shopping per se

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I was given the figure of 7% of the players who start with the Academy ever playing first team.

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7% is that a general figure or at Wire?

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Quote: Horatio Yed "7% is that a general figure or at Wire?'"


It's the RFL's figures gathered from all SL clubs over the past few years. As a rule of thumb, only two SL standard players will emerge from each intake of U15 / U16's.

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ABW.:



Quote: Winslade's Offload "It's the RFL's figures gathered from all SL clubs over the past few years. As a rule of thumb, only two SL standard players will emerge from each intake of U15 / U16's.'"

I would imagine that figure is considerably less in top class Football.

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Quote: Winslade's Offload "It's interesting to look at the list of players that have made their debut over the past 6 years from your list. By my reckoning, there are only 7; Blythe, Tyke, Williams, Evans, GOB, Currie and one that you omitted, Laithwaite. Just to be controversial, I suspect that only 3 of these may remain with the club. That doesn't seem an awful lot for all the hard work we have put into our youth development program ? I wonder how we compare to Leeds and Wigan.'"


Thats because the places in the first team were mainly sewn up by the likes of:

Hodgson
Hicks
King
Atkins
Bridge
J Monaghan
Briers
Myler
Ratchford
Hill
M Monaghan
Higham
Morley
Carvell
Westwood
Waterhouse
Grix

all of these players were brought in to the club from outside

Which ones of those were mistakes and were taking the place of a Warrington lad that could have been worthy of a SL place?

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Quote: sally cinnamon "Thats because the places in the first team were mainly sewn up by the likes of

None, I am not disagreeing with anything you have said, I am simply musing about the number of players we have produced over the past 6 years. I am wondering if we should / could have produced more quality players.

Thanks to Mr Moran's largesse, we have essentially 'bought' a team. And I don't believe that is sustainable, or a good model going forward. We don't wan't to rely on a benefactor to buy players when needed, as he may withdraw at some point. If he does go, even if the club remains successful, we will still have a limited purse to buy new players. So that places increasing importance on the youth training program, which was why your first list of players set me thinking.

Whilst I enjoy watching the Under X's, I am a realist as well. I understand that the vast majority of these players will not make the grade. I am keen though for the club to play the more promising players. We need to know if they are good enough or not. And if they are, they need game time to develop. When we buy in the Hicks's and Kings, we sometimes forget that they too had to serve an apprentice to get to that standard of rugby. We have simply by-passed the hard work and frustration of seeing them make errors, by buying them close to their peak.

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Who comes from Telford?

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Quote: The All New Chester Wire "Who comes from Telford?'"


Joe Furlong.
www.midlandsrugbyleague.co.uk/ar ... rs-starlet
Quote: The All New Chester Wire "Who comes from Telford?'"


Joe Furlong.
www.midlandsrugbyleague.co.uk/ar ... rs-starlet


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Quote: The All New Chester Wire "Who comes from Telford?'"





I think he is the first we have signed from the Midlands, ex team Telford Rangers. Can play half or hooker apparently, but I think he was played off the bench at hooker in the two matches he has played to date.

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Maybe he's better than Brad Dwyer...

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