I do not know enough about tennis to pass comment between Murray and Federer, I do agree though that an element of skill and physical fitness are required.

However in Wiggins case he IS part of a team, that team being a British based one at that coached by a very successful and motivated coach in Dave Brailsford who led the quest in so many Olympic cycling medals this year.

Wiggins was nearly shown the door by him a few years back as he was a party animal who did like a drink all season round. This was the wake up call that he needed in his quest to be the first Englishman to win the tour in over a hundred years and be very successful in 2012. ( does this sound familiar )

He is also GB's greatest ever Olympian, where is Murray in all of this?

The support staff and team around him protect him ( he is the team captain ) from the other European based teams that set out with tactics to disrupt our English based team from being successful. He had 9 team mates in that each of them helped in an individual way to deliver his good times throughout the tour.

Still with me?

On the physical side of things the team set out through the winter to train in Majorca and Tenerife ( high altitude training ) so they are not affected by the thin air that can play havoc with transporting oxygen around the body whilst climbing the hills in different stages, they are subject to countless 1000's of miles in the winter season whilst undertaking V02 max test's and also lactate threshold test's ( not explaining these tests here to scientific )

So you can ride a bike fast? No you cannot and I will explain why, you will not be fit enough to travel 100 mile plus distances averaging 20mph plus as it takes many1000's of miles to get to this level.

Brad is not over rated he is a fantastic athlete in his own right, and for his close friend Sam I could not care less as I am Warrington through and through.

Oh and as a wire fan also a Warrington club cyclist

The Speedo on My Mountain Bike clocked me at 27 MPH down Wally drag with my lad on the back...

imagine the speed I could have got with one of those Carbon Fibre race bikes and dressed in Lycra and my legs waxed........

and on the greatest olympian he's not really is he?
Seb Coe is a greater Olympian he just wasnt able to participate in a variety of events, some single and some team and some madeup comedy events ...(madison or Keiron or Whatever...?? riding behind a motorised bike ...hang on a minute ...)to rack up a tally of medals.

Murray has one event every four years competing in the toughest era of the sport and if he wants to participate in other events he has to play alongside an 18 year old girl or his considerably less talented brother.

Eddie the Eagle was a greater olympian than the sitting down sportsmen

TBH there are plenty of people that know nothing about professional rugby league, but that shouldn't stop them sharing their opinion as without them this forum would be empty.

No, but I'm bemused by a sport where the majority of the competitors are not actually trying to win and where the reigning champion concedes his title 6 months before the start of the race?

I admit I know little about the strategies of cycling, but it seems increasingly to my untrained eye, that Wiggins' victory was merely a bit of icing on Team Sky's cake....Like I've said before, it shouldn't detract from his acheievement, but it does confirm what I've said before and that is there were far more deserving winners of an individual award like SPOTY.

I don't know I bothering here, but let me try anyway. Virtually all the time that Wiggo won the Tour by he picked up in Time Trials (google it if you don't know what that is). No team mates, man versus clock. If you've never ridden a TT, then get a bike, drop the bars so low that when you pedal, your knees touch your chin, then push til you're blowing out of your backside. And keep going for an hour. Then tell me that cycling is a team sport. Or that someone who can average nearly 40 mph over that time isn't an athlete worthy of SPOTY.

Ok, I get that....Now humour me a little more - If he is so much better than everybody else and did the hard graft in those time trials, why can't he defend his title, instead of saying he is going to be part of the team this time and allow Froome to be the main man?

This is where cycling gets complicated! Firstly, I wouldn't be so sure that Wiggo isn't playing mind games. That said teams normally go into races with an appointed leader-the guy they think has the best chance to win it. The other guys (usually) are under orders to sacrifice their own chances to support this man-it takes 30-40% less energy to ride behind someone else than it does to lead-so you won't see a team captain at the very front until critical moments in the race; other team members will drop back and pick up bottles for the main man; if your top guy gets a puncture a team mate may even be called upon to give him his bike, while the 'domestique' as they're called waits for the support car. You only get this support by being one of the best riders in the world mind-ou wouldn't bother sacrificing other riders (who might be able to win stages) for the sake of a nobody.

Last year's tour route suited Wiggo-he's a top time trialer (hence his Olympic gold), and there was more of this. This year there's a few more climbing miles, which suits Froome a bit more, so Sky probably look at the better climber (Froome) as their number one. Plus cycling is full of unofficial 'rules', and having had froome's support last year, it would probably be considered 'good manners' for Wiggo to repay the favour this year (thisight be hard to fathom, but this idiosyncratic culture probably goes someway to explain how the drug culture in the sport was allowed to build and get to the level it did-it probably is the only way the problem can be fully ended too).

When you're riding uphill the speeds are less, the benefit of riding behind someone is less, and it's 'easier' for a good rider to pull out time-that's why climbers, of those that are good in TTs will be nominated as leaders. On the flat stages, with the support of a team, you can stay with the pack. But that doesn't mean the team leader has it easy as they have to ride hardest when the race is most difficult-thus the best will always win. And if you've never ridden in the Alps, trust me, these guys deserve BIG respect for doing what they do.

In short, you can't win without your team, but you won't get the team to help unless you can win.

So is it possible that the best cyclist might not neccessarily win?... Similar to when Damon Hill won the F1 title, despite obviously not being the best driver, is it more a case of having the best team?

Slight tangent but I had my bike serviced yesterday - new brakes, chain and cassette. Prompty fell off on the way home by not paying attention and getting too close to the kerb. Ripped side of tyre. Dangerous and expensive game this cycling if you don't respect it properly.

Wiggins et al is at pains to point out its a team sport. I always thought that the theory of drafting was overrated until I actually did it in a triathlon (naughtily, for about 5 minutes). It does make it a lot easier and that's only at mega chump amateur level. Depending on the type of race, it is a team sport but on a TT, as noted by NtW, you're on your own and the difference is palpable.