yeah thats what they said about football...its full of hooligans its a working class sport. A simple minds track and mainstream TV advertising wont change a thing.

I'm sure the same was said about cricket. this limited over rubbish isnt real cricket who's going to turn up to watch that.....lets no forget the idea of playing cricket under floodlights I'm old enough to remember the out cry over that crazy notion.

Darts......fat blokes sipping pints and chucking some arrows on BBC2. never going to take off.

Formula one a massive global sport when I started watching that back in 1982 I had to watch the 30 minute highlights show on BBC2 on sunday night, and then read Autosport on a Thursday. Its got its own HD Channel now, every round Live from Practice to after race interviews. People that wouldnt have a clue who Niki Lauda or Nigel Mansell were will talk about Hamilton and Button like seasoned experts because its image has been transformed. It is arguably half the sport it used to be, but its ten times more popular.

whether its advertising or improved TV coverage or just a better run sport there's plenty that can be done.

lets just give ourselves some credit....in a poorly attended round of Little old Rugby League a fixture between 2nd and 3rd in the league attracted twice the numbers of fans than Top v 4th in the Scottish football premier league, also attracting nearly double again than the Fixture between world Famous Glasgow Celtic were participating in.

its the second most watched league on SKY tv we should be circiling around SKY TV like vultures for the extra money avialable when the SPL goes tits up, and SKY pull the plug on that....

we are not in the by any stretch but the people in charge need to work their s off like they have in the NRL.

making something appear popular is half the job. People follow popular things they dont have to be good (see X factor). We have a good product that isnt massively popular......its a messed up world

Good post.

This sport is in a very precarious position at the moment. With the extension of the NRL salary cap and the recent rise in money in union over the last decade or so, and the apparent lack of high money interest in our sport...we're on the brink of being left further behind as we see fewer overseas players head over here and more youngsters look to union rather than ever look to League.

Something needs to change with our sport and soon. I know, you know, many fans up here know, that a top game of rugby league is about as exciting as sport gets...for some reason the world outside doesn't know about this.

The governing body is letting us all down. It has to change.

The international game has lost it's prestige with the abolition of Great Britain. Players have said it on all sides (GB, Aussie and Kiwi) on Super League's Super Men, that playing for or against Great Britain was the pinnacle of their international career. We would easily fill Wembley for a test game, now England probably wouldn't sell out the Dave Whelan Stadium. This needs reversing.

There's too much averageness being allowed into the play-off series. Teams having second chances creates a lack of enthusiasm for games. The probability of playing the same team just two weeks apart is making the first of those games bull. A higher quality, higher pressure, no second chances play-offs is needed. The play-offs were once fantastic from Round 1, this needs reversing.

RL is the small band that spends all its time touring tiny venues, in front of a small bunch of dedicated followers, who constantly moan at the big supergroups who get all the media attention and play all the big stadiums, all the while moaning that their ignored favourites are miles better than the bands who have millions of followers and deserve a shot at the big time.

Unfortunately, in all niches of life, there are acts or sports that have a cult following despite seemingly being extremely good - Rugby League is one of them.

Part of the answer about ticket prices may be found in the take up of that £5 kids ticket offer?

A lot of play off games are short notice which might make it inconvenient for some people too. Teams don't tend to know until a few days before what day they'll be playing on, and the week two fixtures in particular are difficult to promote because both home teams are playing that week after losing the week before making it a largely unwanted fixture that a lot of fans might not be keen to pay £20 to attend.

The real problem with the play offs though is the weakness of Super League overall means they aren't as competitive as they should be - this weekend's easy wins for Wigan, Leeds and Hull all proving the point. Yes, Saints won easily as well but that could be deemed a slight shock as they were the away side and lower ranked. The other three games offered no excitement at all to a nuetral though.

Something for the RFL heads to ponder:

Yesterday, on a cold, dank Sunday morning, I was one of a small group of parents who took my lad to his U14's game for Crosfields away to Rochdale Cobras ..... As the game kicked off (10:30am), there were 3 Sunday League football matches (adult age) on the adjacent pitches. Approx 30 people, I assume parents & coaches, were watching the rugby ..... As the game progressed, I noticed how many people were leaving the touchlines of the football matches and migrating over to the rugby pitch. By the middle of the second half, there were over 70 people (I stopped counting at 70) alongside the touchline. Questions I personally fielded included "What age are these?".... "They don't hold back, do they" ......"Don't they get hurt?" ...."Why doesn't the ref stop it so they can get up?"..... "Why do the players/coaches address the ref as 'Sir' (that one made me laugh)".....followed by amazed looks as the game finished, the players shook hands (despite the usual 'in-game' conflicts), and parents/coaches applauded both teams as they left the pitch .... with the 'football converts' joining in the applause/praise.

This same scenario has played out at every venue where football has been played on adjacent pitches, so don't tell me there isn't a wider audience for the game ......... it's down to those at the top/in the media to promote our game properly.

As has been said, if they can get 8-10,000 people to watch darts (and this coming from someone who played county darts!), then selling rugby league should be a doddle!

It's a combination of a few things IMO.

Firstly the play-off structure is ridiculous and seriously needs to be changed after this season.

Secondly I appreciate the economic situation, and that it's hard for a lot of people at the moment. However, Rugby League fans appear to me to be a bit more fickle than those of some sports, and a lot of those who can afford it will often look for excuses not to attend matches, and instead spend the equivalent of the price of a ticket in the pub whilst watching the match on Sky. I'm not criticising because I've occasionally been guilty myself in the past, but that's the way it seems to me.

Thirdly, maybe the fixtures were just not that attractive. Look at the winning margins in the four games: 40, 22, 22 and 36 points. That's disgraceful for what should be competitive matches at the pinnacle of the sport.

The economic situation is definitely having an effect - jobs aren't as secure, debts have to be paid, and wages aren't going up with inflation. These are the worst economic conditions for decades, so it's always going to have an impact. People still want to go, but with only enough money for one or two games they want to save up for the most important, and what's more important than Old Trafford? It's optimistic, but if you get there you have a bit more cash saved up than if you had gone along to the earlier rounds, and if you lose you'll probably be glad you didn't go anyway. For a lot of people, that's a win-win situation for not going to the early rounds.

As for wider publicity, to increase viewers we need to shake off the stereotype that only idiots from the north watch RL, and that means several things. We need to do the marketing campaign thing, to show the world the variety and depth of RL fans, but more importantly we need to clean up the atmosphere and the bad attitude towards the rest of the country. Plenty of current fans don't mind taking their kids to hear the profane chants and verbal abuse towards players and refs, but you can bet anyone going for the first time with their family will run a mile. I don't know what football is like on this point, but I'm sure they put a lot of effort into sorting it out when they were marketing.

I mean this as a serious question - why would you not attend an important match of the team you support because you don't agree with the format of the competition?

The Saints match was an important game despite the second chance (which we'd earnt by finishing second) being available as it puts us under pressure and give us a more difficult route to the final. Plus a local rivalry.

It's not like you're making a grand political stance for humanity - all it does is damage the team and sport you like.

I do not understand how Wigan can lose nearly 10k fans from its seasonal average - OK in reality this figure is more like 8k when you take out the average of away fans but it is still staggering to me how you can lose half a fan base. Leeds was the same.

The playoff format is too dragged out and repetitive, particularly the possibility of identical fixtures for the top 4 in 2 weeks time. This must have an effect on attendances.
Having said that, the attendance figures of this weekend cant be judged in isolation. Wakefield for one have benefited massively this year from having something to play for over the last few months. Its probably a price worth paying keeping it at top 8 even if some tweaks are needed.

I only attend Sunday afternoon games ,I don't want to go to evening games just to suit Sky TV.If I want to watch a play-off game I can go to the pub round the corner at a fraction of the cost of travelling to the match.
The RFL talk a lot about improving stadia but discourage people such as myself from attending due to chaotic, short notice changes to fixtures and many televised games.I need to know well in advance when games are going to be played.
A few years ago I went to Headingley and purchased four tickets for a Friday night play-off game,then the fixture was changed to Saturday ,which didn't suit us so I had to go back to the ticket office again to obtain a refund.No, Leeds didn't compensate me for my petrol expenses (60 miles ) and for wasting my time.
I know many people who watch and enjoy Rugby League on TV but never attend matches.The RFL have made it into a TV sport,the same as F1 racing ,Tennis Golf ETC.

The thing about Sky dictating the fixtures is the amount of money the RFL get from them. £1.125m for each club is a lot, probably 50% of the total ticket revenue for big clubs and possibly overtaking ticket revenue for smaller ones. As rubbish as it is for fans, it's a no-brainer for the clubs when Sky say 'move the fixture' - you would have to be losing half of your attendees on a regular basis before you're out of pocket.

How would people feel about televised games on a Sunday? The frustration seems to be the night games and last minute moves - maybe the RFL could try and get Sky to put a game on Sunday? As long as they are still getting the 100k-150k average viewers they should be happy.

you will find its mainly all season ticket holders.. why go to all home games throughout the season then when your team reaches play offs sth wont pay to go and watch there team unless they get to the final.... to me its pathetic why pay £150 to go and watch your team throught out the season then when it comes to playoffs not go??????