It's not the coach anyway. Put Steve McNamara in charge of Australia and put Wayne Bennett in charge of England. Australia would still win (although McNamara would probably find a way to get Sykes in the Aussie team).

Put Sam Tomkins at full back in the Aussie team in place of Billy Slater and he wouldn't look out of place.

I agree! I think we could go a lot better if say Maguire was the coach of England. Look how deep he has his attacking line set up in contrast to McNamara, giving players like Sam Tomkins an opportunity to exploit weaknesses in defence.

I think its fair to say we can match Australia and New Zealand in the forwards but its always in the backs where we are lacking. Will be interesting to see now we have backs such as Tomkins and Widdop how we will get on in the 4 Nations.

What point are you making, that Sam Tomkins is as good at fullback as Billy Slater?

Yes Maguire was great at opening up Saint Georges defence, oh wait Wigan didn't score a point second half.

During the WCC game you could see similarities between St George and Wigan and in particular the way attacking plays are executed and more importantly how well drilled both defences were. Difference was St George had been playing like that for years as have most clubs in the NRL and Wigan had been for 12 months since Maguire's arrival. So not bad considering.

Also Maguire took a Wigan team (who under Brian Noble never got to a Grand Final) with the addition of Deacon and became Super League champions in his 1st season. That says a lot about Maguire as a coach.

I'm out anyway, I'm done trying to explain myself to a simpleton.

Wires you've outdone yourselves, but for the sake of an argument i'll just agree with you.

Sam Tomkins is so overrated.

All your arguments in my opinion are embarrassing, your talking as if he's not good enough for Super League. Not saying he's better than Slayter, yet, but to be compared to him whilst 22 says it all really. Put him in the NRL and he'll be one of the best full backs there as well.

I am talking as if hes not good enough for SL? when I have said he is a very good super league player and definately in the top 30 best players of SL...

Yes and the fact that SL fans compare him to Slater as if they're in the same league, does say it all really, deluded.

Put him in the NRL and his lack of catching ability under pressure would be severely exposed, poor positional play, and lackluster defence, nevermind his poor decision making with ball in hand (ignores overlaps constantly to dummy and go on his own) would all be highlighted.

Like I said earlier, he is a poor mans Jarryd Hayne... slower, less strength and doesn't have his kicking ability in hand.

First I need to say; why do only the hall of shamers show up. Arctic , you are the most one eyed, no brain rugby chav I can think of.

Any way, don't get me wrong; I want a sam tomkins in the league and therew is no reson to suggest he can't be as good as the past greats.

Ancw, sorry. I am not singling you out. I wasn't going to reply as this is turning into another wire/ wigan slap fight. However, we have always had better forwards thab aus but ter backs. Billy slater (pure class) can destroy us or nz (wc winners and 4 nat) with ease. Tomkins has been no where near that. We should expect him to at least show some of the talent he shows against bradford against aus or nz or even png. He doesn't!

Sorry. To compare tomkins to billy slater is pure moronic.

Tomkins has pace and can slip through ty defense. But, as I said; he is frail, niggly, can't see a pass, can't catch a semi difficult bomb and hasnkt the strengh needed at fullback.

He has stopped doing the arm clamp recently and I like his charity devotion. I like him but please, don't believe this sky hype for him! Wigan are probably better than wire now but it isn't down to sam tomkins (alone) think paddy richards, carmont and joel tomkins... (hahaha just kidding)

Tomkins is class
Wigan will probably do the double/treble

A Wire fan calling it on what he's seeing at the moment.
No way will Leeds beat Wigan in the final

If we finish 2nd i can't see us beating saints twice, on the off chance we do i think it will tire us out for the final.

I'm not Phil Clarke never played for Wigan and love Wire more than my wife, family and all but one of my friends. Not even a pessimist

Yeah, course I was saying Tomkins is as good as Slater.

Didn't see the game, can't be bothered reading all this thread. Just remember, the Thickie Twins were calling Paul Wellens the best fullback in the World merely a couple of years ago, when he patently wasn't.

If they were talking the game, and consequently the players, all would be up in arms. You can't have it both ways.

Well you said he wouldn't look out of place.. that suggests you don't think there would be much of a drop off between the two...

Tomkins isn't even the best player in the Wigan team.... Hoffman, Finch, Lima, Curlylocks, Lulu and possibly Pat Richards all offer more to the Wigan team.

Imagine Real Madrid a few years ago,team full of stars but the (vastly under paid under appreciated) heart beat of the team was Makelele, he did the graft so that the 'stars' could shine.

He went to Chelsea and Madrid's performance dropped off.

Wigan's (regardless of the grief some one eyed muppets say) main man for me is O'Loughlin, he does the hard graft and can look almost anonymous his play is so subtle, Wigan's Makelele.

Tomkins though is (individually) brilliant, he may be a scroat, but the guy is super talented.