I remember that game clearly - I was not there, but listening to it on GMR in my back yard was no less tense, I can't remember a game I have not been to but felt like I had so vividly.

I think you've got your games mixed up, the 58-4 defeat was Plange's first full game in charge, we beat Hull a couple of weeks after that.

We got 3 important wins in a five week period during June and July, over Leeds and important ones over our relegation rivals Wakefield and Salford, that period really was crucial because it meant we were on 10 points, Wakey were on 9 and Salford 8.....if we'd have been on 4 and those on 11 and 10, we'd have had it.

Just after that we copped a 70 point caning at Knowsley Road which sent us into panic mode because we looked dog rubbish, then we lost at home to Cas the next week and Plange got sacked. We were fearing the worst at the time because Wakey and Salford looked to have more fight about them than we did. Both those clubs already had new coaches (Harrison and McNally) and they were getting plaudits scrapping in games hard and losing by a point or a couple of points here and there against good sides. We on the other hand weren't dealing in the valiant efforts in defeat, we were going down easily most weeks but games when we were in the game we were managing to see through and take points. That was the difference and what kept us up in the end.

It was the same story when Cullen took over, apart from that narrow loss in his first game against Widnes, we got the points in the Halifax and Cas games and surrendered without a fight in the other three, which is the same pattern we were getting under Plange. I wonder if Plange had stayed and got the same record in those last six games, if he would be still feted as the man that saved the club from oblivion? Cullen got to be the hero because it suited the story, ex player returns to his home town club and turns the clubs fortunes around. In the end we were 10th when Plange was sacked....we finished the season 10th. We needed one win from six games to survive, we got two.

I also don't buy this doomsday scenario that the club would never have survived relegation. Huddersfield, Castleford (twice) and Salford (twice) went down, kept full time squads, and got back up straight away. Those are all clubs with lower gates and less of an infrastructure than us and they survived fine.

Plange had already won that division with Hunslet and Cullen had done ok with Whitehaven, if we'd been down in 2003 we would have beaten Leigh in the Grand Final and come back up in a blaze of glory ready to move into the new stadium.

Another little aside for the conspiracy theorists. At the end of 2002 it became apparent that Halifax were completely bust and weren't able to run a Super League team in 2003. There were murmurs that the RFL was going to cut their spot. I wonder if a bigger team like us had finished bottom in 2002, whether these murmurs might have spread into something more.

Whatever Cullen's shortcomings as a coach, he did manage to keep us up that season.

Reading this post reminds me of the excitement and tension of relegation battles, sadly lost now with the Franchaise system. Not so exciting when you're in them like, but I don't think that would be a problem any more with Che Smith in charge.

Me neither; the club would have survived but we would be a very different animal now.

I am reading a book written by Ray French written in the late eighties (More Kinds Of Rugby) and it is talking about Huddersfield being in the third division to enable them to build back up the club so it is an amazing turnaround to see them today. Like most clubs, often all you need is the will and deep pockets of one or more individuals in the mould of people like Ken Davy or John Wilkinson at Salford.

5 more years

I might have false memory syndrome here but didn't the capitulations at the end come after we were safe?...my abiding memory of that season was that we were literally dire and so for me it was Cullen who turned it around and not just something that was going to happen whoever the coach was.

IMO Cullen did a great job at warrington and his downfall was his ambition - he knew how to connect with the appos, limas and nat woods of this world and got the best out of them but after the signing of players like monas and king to try and take the club forward he couldn't coach the team anymore

it would have been nicer if he had gone gracefully before people turned on him so the memories weren't tarnished but he stayed because he dearly wanted to take the club to the next level - which is no crime in my eyes

I wish it had ended better. It was a shame because i thought he was a great bloke, but he had to go.

I think your mind is playing tricks chief. I think he kicked two or three tops in the Hull game. Was it five he kicked at Halifax away that year, we lost late on when Cardiss scored, I'd presume that five he kicked that day is still a SL record.

If we're looking for a man who saved the club from oblivion, how about Daryl Van de Velde?

He took over in 1997 with us bottom of the league and facing relegation. As soon as he arrived he had to deal with the loss of Iestyn Harris. He replaced him straight away with a teenage Lee Briers who went onto be our main player for the next 12 years.

At this time the club was in severe financial trouble and had to stop fielding a Senior Academy because of cost cutting measures. Relegation at that time would have been a far bigger disaster than relegation in 2002. Daryl saved us and kept us up that season. Then he had to deal with the enforced sale of our best player Scully.

Daryl was a driving force behind us setting up our Scholarship scheme and re-establishing our youth set up. When he did get a bit of money to spend (and not as much as Cullen got later) he got us to mid table, we finished 7th, 6th, 7th in his last three years which is not too dissimilar to 6th, 7th, 6th which was the record in Cullen's last three.

I don't think DVDV was a perfect coach, I reckon he was about the same quality as Cullen, but Cullen is often remembered in a misty eyed way as the man who singlehandedly saved the club and took us onto greater things, when really all he did was repeat Van de Velde's achievements in much more stable circumstances.

It was also widely suggested at the time that Van De Velde even put his hand in his own pocket to pay the players when there was a cash flow issue. Can't imagine that happening now.

How different do you think we would be?

The only good young player coming through at the time was Paul Wood who probably wasn't established enough to get a lot of SL suitors if we'd gone down - 2003 was his big year with us, so I doubt we would have lost any hot young talent. It might have made it easier to clear out players like Sturm and Crouthers who were on longer term contracts and hung around a bit, if we had gone down and been able to release them. We would probably have lost Fozzard, Domic and Burns who made an impact in 2003 but Fozzard and Domic were gone in 2004 anyway so it wouldn't have made too much difference in the long run.

We would have been a bit behind in recruitment for 2004 because we would only have been able to sign players after the NL Grand Final, so we probably wouldn't have got Forshaw - not sure about Lima, Leikvoll and Wilshere.

But overall I don't see it would have made a massive difference. Most of our big signings came mid2004 onwards anyway

Scullys autobiography confirmed that, he said Daryl used to pay for some of the clubs costs like players flights, accommodation etc.

I am thinking more in terms of the move forwards towards the new stadium which surely would have been jeopardised and thus our long term ability to compete financially.

I do wonder how many supporters would have stuck with the team during such a period considering most of them never seem happy anyway.

Very true indeed, I remember Briers asking him for money so he and his wife could go for a meal, when V.D.V found out his wife couldn't cook he sent her on cooking lessons so they could save money and he wouldn't keep asking for it.

He also payed a few players wages whilst we were in the proverbial, he finally got paid back when he left but your spot on, it wouldn't happen these days.

The question came up at one of the Squadbuilder forums in the Touchdown club in 2002 when we were fighting relegation, Andy Gatcliffe said the stadium was going ahead whether we went down or not.

If we'd stayed down and started the first season in the new stadium in the NL that might have made the first season's sponsorship at the HJ harder to sell, but I think as long as we were at the top of NL in 2003 we'd have been ok.