Their 2 best players in the grand final have left the club though.

Wigan or saints for grand final same every year and can't see anything different for next year..challenge cup anything can happen

Not convinced Saints will do much damage. They will start brightly and the backs are decent….not so sure on their pack at all. I think the belief that Briers is the messiah is also misguided.

Just had a look at the HKR signings and apart from Hargreaves I’m not overly convinced they will be as good or better next season.

JWH is clearly a top level player, but I worry how he will cope with our refs/judiciary.

Australia -12 is a banker v NZ having seen the new Zealand side. They must be missing about 10 players! Including both half backs, centres and their hooker.

I think Hull KR have recruited really well. Waerea-Hargreaves, Tom Davies, McIlorum and Rhyse Martin all add a lot of quality, although it's very much a 'win now' policy, given their ages. Compared to us signing Leyland, Russell and Jacko from Brush Strokes, I know whose recruitment looks better.

Exactly this. It's the kind of thing i was saying to the KR fan that was on here after they beat you saying the Rovers fans knew success was coming but they had only just started crowing about it. Wonder if they are still crowing. I look at Hull KR and just see a Warrington replica of 2008-2022. Just get a load of big names in etc. Wire now have it bang on with recruitment and youth and some bloody good youth too. Wire will win a trophy before Hull KR will. Of that there is no doubt and for a sustained period. Also for the poster worried about Saints........ don't be. If you don't finish higher than Saints next season then Burgess will have gone backwards. They are done for at least the next 2-3 years.

Yes, I agree that these are a good crop of youngsters (I know, I know, Sally) and our coaching set up has the confidence to play them. I'm still happy to let them fill more and more of the 17 over the next few years and would be delighted if the following was the core of our team in two or three years...

1. CTW
2. Thewlis
3. Lindop
4. Wrench
5. Ashton
6. Leyland
7. Hayes
8. Thomas
9. Walker
10. Harrison
11. Holroyd
12. Whitehead
13. Nicholson (after 3 years in the NRL).

To be fair to us, between those years we got some bloody good big names in! From 2009-19 we went to 6 challenge cup finals(winning 4). Won the LLS twice and went to 4 grand finals. I'm sure most rovers fans would take that.(even though i am still fuming smith never got his side to win at OT )

Let’s look at the HKR recruits then Tom Davis, would you swap him for our wingers I think not. McIIlorum can do a job but well past his sell by date, again would not have him in front of our current 2. Martin probably better goal kicker than Thewlis and as had some good games I would prob take him. Hargreaves as someone already said he could have issues with disciplinary over here but if he stays on the park could go really well.

Lindop and CTW are the ones I’m very jealous of as a rival fan. Two great athletes who looked so comfortable in their debut season

-16 England v Samoa +16

I think it will be closer this time.

Some of the winning margin bets look interesting

Ashton first try 6/1 and England 9/2 6-10 points