Interesting you mention Leeds with Agar in charge. He was vilified here and at Wakey and Hull yet now he's seemingly turned around a Leeds team on the decline to CC finalists and will be top 3 by your reckoning.

Do our problems run deeper than just the head coach?

Our problems, are unfortunately, everywhere
As I mentioned, our coaching set up isn't fit for purpose, from top to bottom.

Leeds (despite or indeed because of Agar) have been battle hardened for the last 15 years. They're used to winning trophies. Sinfield has inspired his club for the last 2 decades, and has got players to better themselves. Lee Briers can grow a big beard, and I can't give you a description of Price and Henderson, such is their ordinaryness

I don't think we can really judge coaches unless we know how involved they actually are. Anderson and Henderson have both been head coaches of teams that ha e punched above their weight. I'm not sure that's the case with Steve Price. A month ago he was forced in to a dynamic second row of King and currie, in my opinion a good coach would have stuck with that or at least reverted to it if we were chasing a game, our coach has abandoned it in favour of tacklers.

I'm ready for a change in the coaching but we need to get it right - some of our regular starting 17 will be past their prime in the next twelve months.

Watson? Much admired atm but is he big fish/small pond scenario?
Powell? Serial moaner, over achieved at Cas, little end result
McDermott? Impressive CV but Leeds fans hated him
Wane? Negative rugby but big on results

And thats it domestically. If we look overseas then it will be short term and becomes as much of a lottery as signing as a "marquee" half-back.

Personally, I think Powell at Cas might be ready for a new challenge and be more viable than Watson. McDermott would probably be tempted. Wane is unlikely to change until after the WC.

All the more reason to start work now - I've said it before, come November Wigan and/or Saints may well be planning a change and you can bet they'll act more quickly than our management team.

I forgot Danny Ward at London - wildcard gamble but he might actually be the most realistic of the lot.

I agrer with Leftys general premise tho. I [idon't care[/i how many promising scholarship youngsters we've signed because they won't get a look in under the current regime.

I've no gripes with Wane (despite dull RL) or McDermott. They're both serial WINNERS
Watson, as I said previously, does like a losing run. Should he come to us, and we go on a losing run of our own, I doubt if he had the gumption to get us out of one.
Powell. As Frankie Howerd would say. Nay, Nay and thrice Nay.
Once upon a time, we once employed the biggest bottomhole in RL, in Lowes. I don't want the apprentice to that title.

Stephen Kearney? ... Coaching enigma, failed NRL coach, very good international coach. Super League somewhere inbetween?

Couldn't be worse than Price for actual style of play?

Toronto's fate will be decided the end of this month.

We should be poised with a contract ready if the decision is Toronto are relegated. But hell, I would hope the potential in the squad (and for all the inpet performances of late, the potential is huge) would persuade McDermott to jump ship irrespective of the decison.

Without a doubt they do. This club has accepted mediocrity for ten years now and our recruitment has been beyond average. Changing the head coach will improve us but no way will it fix everything. I’d be starting with replacing the CEO who appears to be more bothered about retweets on Twitter than results on the field and whoever is in charge of our dismal recruitment.

I'm confused.

Many seem to think our squad is decent and our coach is failing to get the best from them. If so, then our recruitment is ok, isn't it?

If it's actually because of 'dismal recruitment' then maybe the coach isn't to blame?

Is it likely that the club is just generally mediocre right through to the core? Recruitment, coaching, mentality - We are just mediocre.

If we want a football analogy, then maybe we need to follow the present Everton strategy - In recent times a club with big investment, but which has been followed by mediocrity and failure (sound familiar?). Now finally, they have fetched in a proven winner as manager and, though it's early in the season, the signs of improvement in both the team and assorted individuals is becoming apparent.

Ultimately, like I said last night, Mr Moran needs to spend his marquee money on his head of recruitment AND a coach. Get those two right and the rest will fall into place.

I said it before and I reiterate, spending power is as much a curse as a blessing. Prudence, dilligence and objectivity have been lacking.

For every Chris Hill we've signed an Anthony England
For every Adrian Morley we've signed a Latu
For every Gareth Carbell we've signed an Asotasi
For every Lee Briers we've signed a Tyrone Roberts
For every Trent Waterhouse we've signed a Jason Clark

Every agent in the NRL will have us on speed dial and every washed up, has been, never was, never will be, pension seeking parasite will continue to eye us up with lascivious eyes.

You looked at the set plays Wigan set up last night and it's a 7 on 5, runner everywhere and everyone knowing their role. I lost count last night the number of times backs and forwards took a one up last night, only to try a change of direction 6 yards from the line, lose the momentum and fall into the arms of a wigan defenders like a loved up mills and boon character.

Where on earth are the attacking tactics? You can't say Widdop hasn't been great in his career, nor become e over night. It must be down to the attacking coaching. For some reason we dont like set moves, we like off the cuff, but finals and wet weather footy ain't the place for it and the grand final is arguably both if these, every single year

I do feel sorry for our backers - they are fans at the end of the day and have put their money where their mouth is.
I think they will be getting increasingly frustrated too.
They are successful businessmen - that doesn't necessarily mean they can shape the club to be successful though. Obviously I hope they can.
Sometimes businessmen forgot their business principles whrn it comes to sport (the Everton analogy is apt).

As CW8 has said, most of us - including me - don't know what exactly is involved in each of the coaching roles so it's difficult for me to criticize Henderson, Briers, Gardner, Anderson, Leuluei etc. Ultimately though the buck stops with the head coach - particularly if they are given the resources to do the job. I don't think any of our 'Moran' coaches could complain about not having the resources or backing.
(Reminds me of a recent airbnb stay where, when we got there, we found the place hadn't been cleaned. We contacted the owner who apologized but when he checked, found out that the cleaners hadn't been in. He set about getting the cleaners in, but we left and said 'too late, the buck stops with the you'. Full refund and additional compensation followed).

Now it's been pointed out that Agar and others have left us and gone in to be successful elsewhere and that's interesting because I can't remember the likes of Agar getting anything but vitriol on the message boards.
Fans are also blinkered at times.

I really don't know what the answer is to turn us into a club with a 'winning DNA' but it has to overcome decades and decades of not having it.
I dislike Wane intensely for his style of rugby (or is it boring Thugby?) , but he's got a winning DNA. I could do with a GF win and would sacrifice some entertainment for that BUT only in the short term.

Our squad is decent. It’s littered with some really good players, one world class player in Daryl Clark and some very average & replaceable players. It certainly is one of the best squads in the league, (though that says more about the standard of SL than anything) but our recruitment has still been dismal. Both statements can be true.

As Mozza says for every Chris Hill there’s a Roy Asotasi/Anthony England. In the last five years I’d say we’ve made two good signings: Josh Charnley and Blake Austin. That’s off the top of my head. Think of the amount of players that have come and gone over the last five years, a strike rate of two is awful. I stand to be corrected if there’s anymore that have cut it though...