go back a few years and they were seperate competitions the league followed by the top 5 premiership comp i still think league leaders need more recognition and the playoff spots should be reduced

First, McGuire's tackle is bad. But with the leniency of the disciplinary panel this year, I've no problems with a one game ban. They need to be stricter next year on reckless and dangerous play IMO.

Second, stick with playoffs. It generates much needed coverage and income for our game. But I'd reduce the number of teams that can qualify and change the format. You would also need to change the amount in the league as too many teams season will be over with 10 games to go.

Thirdly, Saints have a very good forward pack adding to that with Manu next year, but their halves, Lomax and Hohaia are garbage and Wellens doesn't offer much in attack although he probably is the best defensive fullback in the league. They hugely miss some creativity in the middle of the park.

Mcguire didn't think it was malicious, i wouldn't have been bothered if he hadn't been banned.
Whoever finish's top should be champions, we might get a competetive season rather than just a few games at the end of the season.
Saints, if the team buy into Brown will get stronger next year.

1, Maguire isn't a dirty player . Leeds do use dirty tactics though always trying to milk penalties imo
2, whomever wins the league are champions imo
3, Saints are no longer as big a threat maybe next year again LMAO

Danny Maguire is not a dirty player, he deserved a 1 game ban only. The system should stay broadly as it is, but with a 5 or 6 team play-off series and more recognition for the team finishing top in the form of much more prize money. People go on about our ageing pack, but Saints have gone the same way and there is nothing like as much quality (apart from James Roby) in their forwards as there is in ours. They've signed Manu who will be 33 by the time he puts on a Saints shirt, and I can only see them dropping further behind next year. Turner is their other main signing and he simply cannot defend.

The only reason we have this attitude of "there should be greater reward for finishing top" or "whoever finishes top should be champions" is that the concept of play offs just doesn't sit right in the minds of many sports fans in this country. The argument tends to be along the lines of "imagine telling Man City after finishing top for the first time in decades they aren't champions after all".

The reality is football is one of very few (in fact it's the only one I'm aware of) major sports in the world where play offs are not used to decide the champions, and it doesn't need them because it's far more global and has other things to play for - European places for example. Even football uses them to a degree though - it's possible to finish third in the Championship and miss out on promotion to the team that finishes sixth for example.

All the big American sports use them, other UK sports like RU and cricket use them (I know the county championship doesn't, but Twenty20 attracts bigger crowds and does), and as a direct RL comparison the NRL uses them.

If Leeds win from fifth again it will be to Leeds credit, not the competition's detriment. Everyone knows the rules at the start of the season, and by finishing fifth Leeds map out a far harder path to Old Trafford than the top two face. To win it from there is a Champion achievement.

I do agree the format is too overblown at the moment, and I would prefer a top six with no "second chance" games format, but the play offs in general need to stay and not be downgraded to an end of season tournament after the table toppers have already been crowned champions.

When commenting on the McGuire incident, you have to look at the McIlorum incident too as I believe that without the Wigan players ban Mcguire would probably have got away with it. McIlorums high shot came from the blind side, was very late and looked like (and only McIlorum himself would know for certain) a deliberate and premeditated shot to the head. McGuires looked more like an attempt from a relatively lightweight halfback to put a big shot on a forward, but a combination of poor technique, mistiming it and bad luck (Anderson going down as he came in) caused it to turn into a headshot. IMO the RFL, for once, got it about right with three games and one game respectively.

The League Leaders shield should be the holy grail for all clubs but the format of the competition is such that it means little when compared to the Grand Final itself. You could even argue that the format of the competition devalues finishing top even more as, such as this year, if one team goes all out to finish top, but another sacrifices that to stay healthy then the side that finishes top isn't necessarily the 'best team' despite finishing with most points. I'm glad we finished top last year if only so that, should we win on Saturday, we can't have it thrown back at us that we're a good 'Cup Side' but can't do it week in week out, but when it comes down to it the GF is the be all and end all.

How long have Saints supposedly been in decline now, yet they still keep making Grand Finals or getting very close to them. Eleven or twelve other clubs in SL probably wish they were 'in decline' too. I'm not sure if Nathan Brown is the right man for the job at Saints. It seems his head is turned too easily if/when a job downunder comes up. If I was a Saints fan I would be very worried about the now traditional mid season collapse that Huddersfield seemed to suffer most years. However I think that Saints will be there or thereabouts next season and any team that wants to get to, or win at Old Trafford, they're going to have to beat Saints at some point.

1. One match ban more than sufficient - it was a daft slap, not a punch or flop to the head with an elbow;

2. Winners of league should be lauded as 'Champions', but because the playoffs are pushed as more important by RFL/Sky (and hence offer the more lucrative prize monies) , it was embarrassing to see the top 5 'resting' players in the latter part of the season, jockeying to avoid facing certain draws in the playoffs. The potential for 3 Wigan v Saints games in 3 weeks if Wigan had won the final league game was farcical! The win for Saints suited both teams - no conspiracy theory; it just did suit both, and they knew that.

3. Saints have too many players who wait for Roby/Wilkin to do something that they can tag onto, rather than make a play themselves. As for trying to replace Graham with the puddings they have at the moment is an insult to Graham. Like Wigan with Richards, they have missed Ade Gardeners presence on the wing more than they might realise. He has previously given them a reliable threat out wide which forced the opposition to spread their defence to cover. Neither Meli nor Makinson need the 'double markers' Gardener did ....... if Meli breaks a tackle, no problem; same tackler can catch him up again 20 yards later! He's only effective 10 yards from the opposition line.

Agreed.

Back when the team that finished top were champions, wasn't the Challenge Cup the biggest competition in RL anyway?

Like I said previously: I don't think Saints are in decline currently, but it depends when you think the decline started and what you define 'decline' to be. It's an interesting one as we were still were making GFs, so it becomes hard to signify the point in which a decline had taken place.

IMO (well you singled it out ) the decline started a few years ago, but we are on the way back up...there is no way that we should have been involved in the Grand Final last year, or this year in fact, because Wigan and Warrington were the two best sides.

From last year we started to integrate the next generation of Saint's players and that's when the 'transitional perioid' (hate the phrase...) began, but I suppose you could even trace it back to 2010. I think that getting to the GF last year papered over the cracks somewhat and maybe if we missed out it would have made it abundantly clear, but a new stadium, a new coach and a new tactical outlook on how we play next season could see us truly challenging again throughout the season.

Good luck at OT.

It still is financially.... clubs gain much more revenue from winning the challenge cup then they do from winning the GF.

You can also argue that winning the challenge cup gains your club more supporters and countrywide recognition. I know people in London that don't even know what the grand final is... However, they do know what the challenge cup final is and they know that warrington 'keep winning it'.. Does this also not make the Challenge cup the more prestigious event?

Saints are not in decline in terms of results but more in terms of performance and entertainment.

Minor point, but in your signature you ref the SL Leaders Shield, but not the old League Leaders shield (Championship) from 72/3. You might want to add in-but save til Saturday night and kill two birds with one edit

And go back a few more years and the vast majority of Champions in RL history have been decided by playoffs and a final - just like we did in 1955. It is not, despite popular myth, an idea dreamt up by Sky.



The premiership was top 8.

What about further back, when the team that won the playoffs and Championship final were Champions, like we did in 1955?