Tony Smith left out a fit Brett Hodgson for that 2013 grand final. That defeat had a LOT to do with smith regardless of the injuries. It's 3 and a half years later and I am still unable to fathom what on earth he was thinking

My opinion on smith is that I would be cutting him some slack now if he had delivered at least one grand final in the years 2010-2013 when we had such a superb side. He should have done, but unfortunately he didn't and that is why fans are beginning to turn on him. Some people are saying "could we be like leeds last season?". Well if we had won 7 grand finals in 12 years I would quite happily take a season like leeds had last year.

I may be getting a bit long in the tooth but I really can't get hyped up about all this.
We've got a stronger team than last year.

Losing to Cats away is not the end of the earth. It's difficult to go over there and win. Didn't play well enough to win.
We were brilliant against BB
We came up against a red hot Cas playing at the top of their form. We had the opportunity to win but didn't take it.
We were very poor against Salford and didn't deserve to win. Very few players came out with credit.

That's why I'm looking for and expecting a reaction on Thursday.

In RL - more than arguably any other sport - it's about desire and teamwork. Supporting your mates.
For some reason the desire wasn't there last week.
Let's hope it's a learning opportunity.

On the subject of TS v Wane in front of the camera - I don't honestly care what public image they emit.
TS isn't the best but neither is Wane by a long chalk.
I do care about how they relate to the players and if they get the best out of them.
''Managers'' show their feelings in different ways.
There are only so many times you can give out the 'hairdryer' treatment without it losing it's effectiveness.

i think tony smith has his work cut out this year we seem to have a better team but the poor start whilst not the end of the world it will be a hard fight back up the table if we don't turn it around.

Irrespective of our opinions on individual players we have had a team out there that should have been capable of winning our opening games.

I don't profess to be an expert however something just does not seem right as it didn't a few seasons ago, getting beat is part of sport but we seem to have accepted it before the final whistle is blown which does not bode well for the upcoming games

The problem is, nothing "seems right" when you are on a bad run, but hit a purple patch and win the next few games, and everything looks rosey again. That's why I love the roller coaster of RL. I'm pretty sure this will all be forgotten soon enough.

I bet it won't be forgotten about, the debate will rumble on.

I can see this season being one where at the start of April we are 1-6 and at the bottom of the league and seen as a club in crisis, the board stick with Smith and then we start to pick up some wins.

We steadily pull ourselves in to the top 8, but after the split are too far adrift to make a credible play for the top 4 and play out the final weeks of the season in apathy.

There will be a lot of anger on this forum and people saying they have had enough, want to give up with Wire until we get a new coach etc etc.

That's scenario A.

Scenario B is that when we are 1-6 the club parts company with Tony Smith, thanks him with fulsome tributes for what he has done, and appoints Richard Agar for the rest of the season. The club then struggles along and either just sneaks in to the 8, or just slips in to the bottom 4 but enjoys some good wins over the lower league sides and secures our SL future fairly easily, and at that point Agar is confirmed as our head coach on a two year contract till 2019.

In that case, there won't be all the debate about coaches on here, as the future will be decided. There may be a lack of general optimism though!

Or scenario C, we pick up a couple, or three wins, get some players back, build a bit of momentum and be close enough to make a creditable assault on a top four place during the top 8 play offs?

I agree with uncle Rico . If we win Thursday , which is a big if but we won't face an easier Wigan side, then we can hopefully build momentum. We have three keys players missing in hill ratchford and Currie. It's only three games in, players due to back soon . We hopefully do a Wigan last year and be there or there abouts and peak near the end of the season when it matters. BUT we have to pick two points up first on Thursday

Scenario B. Is Agar as involved as he was only I've not spotted him on the cameras.

I think the people at the top had their fingers burnt from putting a no2 in charge in the past. I would be amazed if it happens again.

Although if Smith resigned tomorrow to go and coach Saints, im not sure who the club would turn to. Probably an interim until the end of the season.

The whole culture would need changing though.. a clean start for everyone.

Would they not use Lee Briers? Do you think In time Lee would be our manager?

It would be very difficult to get top 4 if we lose 6 of our first 7, and given that we have Wigan, Saints away and Hull in our next four games I think its a likely outcome in the form we are in.

A turn around is not impossible. Last season Hull lost three in a row in February/March and there was pressure on Radford but they went on a great winning run after that. But we would really need a Hull style turnaround as to make top 4 you probably can't afford to lose more than 9 or 10 in the whole season.

The irony is that had this current Super 8s and top 4 format been around back in 2011 we wouldn't have had to deal with Leeds in the playoffs...

The key word is scenario and in mine I had us winning a game or two more from the first seven...fingers crossed

Didn't Saints lose 6 games one year at the start of the season to get rid of Royce Simmons ,then as soon as KC got the job they won nearly every game ? I'm sure they got to Old Trafford too, possibly the Ben Flower final.

In the good old days before the fans turned on him.I believe most of them think there are too many old Saints players on the backroom staff.

Since we seem to have entered the world of scenarios, what set of circumstances would realistically precipitate the sacking of TS ?

Scenario 1
I guess if we had a year when we dropped into the middle 8's, then we would certainly see a drop off in attendance at the HJ and I think that might send the traffic lights to amber as far as Simon Moran is concerned. Fans would certainly grumble, ST holders would fall and we would likely see some player departures and perhaps a big name or two recruited. But just like Leeds last year, I don't think TS would get the sack or that we would see fans on the street burning effigies. Sport is fickle, sides have good and bad patches, runs of injuries, plus Lady Luck also plays her part. There would be disquiet because we thought it was our year, but hope springs eternal and we have been here before.

Scenario 2
If we had two bad years and another visit to the middle 8 naughty step, then yes, I think that could well be a breaking point. In fact it will be interesting to see what happens at Leeds this year, although knowing Uncle Gary the need to make a severance payment is likely to be just a major stumbling point. At that point attendances at the HJ will have plummeted and SM will have had time to look at alternative options. The point about who would replace TS is a good one. Marry in haste, repent at leisure, and I don't see a queue of good alternatives to Smith at the moment. If you were an Aussie coach would you really wish to come over here to immerse yourself in a low quality game that was slowly dying on its feet along a narrow strip of motorway ? Perhaps there is someone who likes missionary work and we should not be so cynical.

Scenario 3
We don't win the GF, but we oscillate around in the top four group of clubs, occasionally winning a CC and the LLS. Attendances are likely to remain relatively stable, fans will grumble but accept the status quo whilst still hoping for an elusive GF win. Does anybody really believe that fans would demand change ? When I look at the Wire booking system on line I can see that there are more reserved seats this year than last - our ST holders seem to have increased, presumably because of our two finals last year. My take is that fans in general are happy to accept this situation whilst still hoping for the big prize. Personally, under this scenario, I think the quality of play on offer is far more of a threat to attendances than not winning the GF.

I suppose I can sum all that up by saying I don't think there any chance of TS being kicked out this year because he didn't win the GF.