I don't understand your point really? Saints can spend up to the cap and there aren't many clubs paying transfer fees at the moment.

Saddened, they are missing you over on the Wigan forum. They send their regards.

I didn't mean capital (although the stadium and paying Royce off won't have been cheap)

I meant the tools; the making up of the team (Players, first and foremost, are not up to scratch. The Roby tea tray joke is so funny because it is so true. Plus the backroom staff looks shaky and the chairman and board are in no man's land with transfers)

2005- Daniel Anderson in charge
Getting transfers such as Lyon from Australia
A spine of Cunnigham, Long, Wellens etc
Good, exciting youth coming through
Good pack
Confidence

The pieces have been falling apart one by one. With out one of those things the chances of success drop dramatically. Saints have, arguably, lost ALL of them.

Royce wasn't the problem. Potter wasn't the problem 2 years ago and when Cunngham and his shadow eventually fail, it won't be their fault.

I never thought I'd say it but Saints are well and truly on the decline.

And they'll probably go and beat us twice this year...

No doubt. After I said that. I actually spent a couple of mins just looking at that sentence. The wounds haven't healed and I don't want to jinx it.

I reckon Lyon is the best ever overseas signing in the Super League era, but in all sports when a player comes back for a second term at a club where he's a legend it is usually an anti-climax. I wonder if Saints are in danger of going for the nostalgia route by getting in Keiron Cunningham on the coaching staff and bringing back Lyon.

Nathan Brown would be a good choice for Saints coach, if he's willing to stay in England, you have to take your hat off to him for the job he has done at Huddersfield, top drawer coach. When he was in the NRL with St George Illawarra Dragons I thought the jury was out on Brown, the Dragons were always the nearly men despite having a lot of internationals and Origin players on their roster, but in fairness to Brown he was a very young guy thrown into coaching with no apprenticeship and he's had to learn on the job and fair play to him he seems to be a good quality coach now. I think if he was St Helens coach they would win trophies.

Bit surprised with this Jamie Lyon thing...is he not doing very well in Oz because he isn't good enough ,in which case would he benefit Saints ,& i am a bit surprised that he would want to come with the recent talk of a salary cap increase in Oz.

Jamie Lyon won a Grand Final and is in Manly's first team. He is playing well. They might be willing to let him go as he is 29 and they've got young players like Cherry-Evans who is on a low salary at the moment and his agent has apparently demanded a deal to match Chris Sandow's, which is meant to be eight times more lucrative. They also have other younger players who they want to tie down to contract extensions. So they have a choice, lose a very highly rated Australian international half back (How many of those are there) or lose some other players. Lyon is a player on a good contract who would accept a move if Saints could offer an appropriate deal.

When are these cap increases coming in? They have been talked about for a while, but they don't seem to be vacuuming up the talent like they supposed to and a few clubs are struggling to keep all their current players.

Jamie Lyon is still top drawer, but which of the superb Saints youngsters that just keep rolling off the Saint Helens production line year after year will make way for him....??

Wheeler Lomax Gaskill......? or are you getting rid of your big money buy Shenton..?

anyway its very very funny

i agree coach can only play with the team he's got! btw are you the mark stringer i went to school with (culcheth)

Lyon's still class but not the same speed as he had before he returned to Oz - he'd score and set up tries in SL but not tear other sides apart like he did. He also wouldn't be in a side with Long, Sculthorpe and Cunningham.

I also think that at the top end of SL the current crop of British outside backs is far superior to what was around during Lyon's first stay.

Write saints off at your peril.

Some of the comments on here are laughable at best.

Yeah they are struggling a bit at the moment but to say they are in decline is ridiculous. They have lost two great players over the last year or so and havent replaced them YET.

Be proud