Toa is a New Zealander.

He had an English mother and his father was a New Zealander, and hence that qualified to play for England/UK. and also New Zealand.

Cheers

I feel sorry for you, genuinely.

I started watching just after the Brian Johnson, Phil Blake and Les Boyd era.

Saw some fine overseas players in the early 90s - Mercer, Mann, Kelly Shelford, but those players were surpassed by the ones who played in the Tony Smith era.

It was the inclusion of Sims that took my attention. Jesus Christ. To think we used to have Boyd and Tamati.

Have we really not had a better overseas prop ?

Andrew Gee or Ashton Sims?

Or have Guisset at prop before either of them.

I can assure you Sims didn’t make the cut!

I'm trying to think of the overseas props we've had in the post Boyd era.

Craig Teitzel
Dallas Mead
Andrew Gee
Danny Lima
Chris Leikvoll
Roy Asotasi
Mitchell Dodds

Nutley, Sims and Rauhihi preferable to all of those. It may be a toss up between Sims and Leikvoll who despite being a bit slow had good hands for a prop and was always worth an offload. Sims was not an elite prop but you could rely on him to put a shift in and provide some leadership.

Am I missing somebody obvious?

Finau, masella,[size dallas mead[/size george mann

Can you ever remember Sims putting another prop on his backside or breaking a tackle? I remember him wearing a player mic once and the sound of him being smashed was horrendous to listen too. 6'4" and four and 17.5 stone he had all the attributes to be great.

Sims gets a bad rap on here, but when he wasn’t on the field the difference between him and his replacement was astonishing. He may not have been a stream train, but he was a good defender, good communicator and carried the ball up often finding quick play the balls.

Sometimes the beauty is in the detail. If you look at Mikaele/Sita for example, highlight reels are great, skittling players at will, but they caused so many problems for the defenders around them because they had no idea of how to get the basics right.

No world beater, probably didn’t get as much out of him what we would have liked, but he was a good player for us. Minor addition, his engagement with the fans, especially the younger fans, was a huge success for the club, even the BBC microphone thing and the Question of Sport appearances etc got the club into the media spotlight. Not that any of that should add value as a prop, but the club as a business should have acknowledged that.

I suspect that if he came from Batley to Warrington on the same money, he would be well liked and fondly remembered. But as he was an import with a decent reputation, we hold him against that.

Fair enough on the playing part. Maybe my expectations are too high. Our overseas pack signings have been distinctly average as best in the last in the last 30 years, this thread just puts that into context.

I don't count attribute any value to the TV appearances, I am only interested in the on-field performance.

Completely agree.

I think the overseas forwards thing is a bit more widespread than just us though. The more NRL experience that a prop coming over here has doesn’t offer convert to being a fan favourite. The NRL is attritional, they want their props to be efficient. That means no dropped balls, quality defender, ruck control and good line speed. None of that wins hearts on the terraces.

If you look at Matt Prior, Luke Douglas, Jason Ryles, Frank-Paul Nuuausala, Luke O’Donnell etc. all came over with buckets of NRL experience but never really delivered to the same standard. I’m sure there are plenty that buck the trend, but on the main, they were a let down.

The ones that really succeeded went without fanfare when they were first signed. Cuthbertson and Millington for example were journeymen in the NRL, but excellent in Super League.

It’s a fine line, those qualities may be boring but they are effective at the back end of the year when it counts. But for the chuck of salary cap it takes to bring in Dylan Napa, Zane Tetevano etc. you absolutely need them to deliver from day one.

I wonder what we'll be saying about Paul Vaughan in 12 months time.....

I think expectations have been managed by the last 12 months. I’m not sure it could get worse, so this years intake have a free hit.