From a source VERY CLOSE to Andre dropped to reserves for questioning Smith over treatment of Patton and the immunity of some of the other players.Seems Smiths ego is greater than his desire to pick the best team!

Remember these are just internet rumours. They always happen when a team is losing. It's one thing getting worked up about the hard facts (we have lost every game and are the worst team in the league), and another getting worked up about stuff people have just read on a forum.

There's a lot of hypocrisy about GO'B on this forum just as there is starting to be about Patton now. How many times did we read on here how GO'B was not the answer, as a replacement for Briers, for a club that wanted to win the Grand Final. He is a decent player and is doing ok for Salford, now our level might be heading towards that and so GO'B would be a good option but at the time he left the view was that anything other than winning the Grand Final was a failure and so had Smith kept GO'B as a starter he would have got criticised on here for lack of ambition.

Patton is similar to GO'B in that he stepped up to SL and showed he could do OK but the jury is still out on him as a top player. When there are unfounded rumours on the internet about him being unsettled people will say what a disgrace that a young player is treated like that, but if Patton was given the full confidence of the coach and our first choice every week how long before this forum started saying our recruitment isn't good enough we need to bring in a new halfback.

I would keep him but if he did ask for a transfer, it's not like a young Iestyn Harris asking for one, he hasn't done enough yet to trigger a bidding war by top clubs for his services.

If Patton leaves. The first choice halfbacks will be two players in the twilight of their career and no hot prospect to step up. With respect to Morgan Smith, he's barely scrubbing the mud off their boots, never mind being drip fed into the team.

Andre is never backward at coming forward and will ask those questions, he did at Saints hence his career path!

TS is beginning to destroy all club nurtured talent, he will do the same to Livett and King. It's ok to a point if the "billy big pants" he signs are up for the cause but sadly at present they are not.

The younger players need game time and confidence otherwise its pointless having them at the club. We have a good young crop at the minute, but we are in danger with the current methods of TS of destroying them.

As for Mr Moran, he is a supporter as we are, his problem is that TS has too much of stranglehold on the club rather like Mr Wenger at a certain football club.

The future of the game is in the youth system nothing else. Overseas players can't be relied on to do any more that make a big hole in the salary cap & they are becoming fewer & further between anyway. Any manager who stifles the youth system is a fool.

The boss is the boss. You say Andre has been dropped for "questioning" Smith. Well that could mean anything.. I have staff questioning me, which I allow no problem, but it should be done in the right manner and with respect. If not, I back Smith.

People just want there to be problems in the camp because it supports the current situation, but interesting this has only surfaced now when we are 0 from 6 and not anytime before.

I think that this is a good and valid point WF,

Whether TS is totally to blame for disunity in the camp we don't know, but, you can't have a situation where young players, one of whom has been here for five minutes, openly calling out the boss if that indeed is what is/was going on. That is where senior pro's and also the assistant coach must play their part if the junior members of the squad have a gripe then why cant they, or do they have a player say a Hill, Clark, Westwood or Sims that the younger guys can look up to and help put their point over, or even put it to Agar so that it is a more rounded debate than a disgruntled rant straight AT TS?

I don't think that it is Agar's fault that he is close to TS but maybe that's a problem or part of it if the messenger is the blindly the Boss's man then he wont be effective.

All speculation but things are rarely as simple as are painted on here that all the disharmony is the management's fault IMO

I find the assertion that TS doesn't give youth a chance really unfair, to be honest.

GOB, Glenn Riley, Philbin, Jack Johnson, the King brothers, Currie, Patton, Wilde, Smith, Julien have ALL been given a chance under Smith.

Those who have knuckled down and consistently performed have stayed in the team (King brothers, Currie). Others who need more time to mature have dropped back down a level (Wilde, Smith) and others who weren't good enough were moved on (
GOB, Riley). Some (Philbin being a major culprit) have had plenty of game time and not progressed one iota in 18 months.

Some may feel he is scapegoating younger players but you look to experienced players at times like this.

Therein lies the problem. Our experienced players are letting us down.

I've heard he same on Andre. Questioned TS on Patton and he didn't like it. TS doesn't like anyone that questions his judgement. Any of the players who actually stand up and ask questions about his decisions risks being dropped or in some cases moved on. Smith only likes his yes men. This is the reason there's no real leadership in the team. All scared to voice their opinions. Don't get me wrong hilly is a fantastic player but he isn't a true leader. A captain should stand up and lead defend his team and direct them, all these players are just his puppets now.

If you're going to call out the boss - you better be playing well.

I'd love to see how Sir Alex Ferguson would have reacted if a young player started questioning his judgement.

If TS was scared of the likes of Patton and Savelio and guaranteed them first team every week how many games would they have won us by now?

You simply can't be in TS position and allow people to question your judgement and decisions. Do that and you're not a leader.

As Sally says, no decent manager anywhere will accept being undermined by young players.

TS rightly or wrongly in our opinions will have a strategy to get out of this mess and the players at least should get behind this fully and show unity. If not they shouldn't be in the team.

Savelio should be knuckling down and trying to get his career back on track and not questioning Tony Smith with regards to who he does and doesn't pick. He's been here for all of a couple of months and if true, I back Smith 100% on this one. If it were Hill, Clark, Gidley or another senior player, then fair enough, but Savelio? Nah, don't think he's earned the right and perhaps we're seeing signs of why Saints didn't care less when it came to letting him sign for us.