To be fair I wouldnt have been upset at the mention of Geoff Toovey... and he's gone to Bradford...

Hes' in the level below those mentioned above and to be fair he probably was to manly what Cullen was to us... but getting a club to an NRL grand final cant be sniffed at.....

I don't know how long Smith has left i'm guessing two consecutive trophy-less seasons or one season out of the play offs.

He's had some serious money and the pick of most players available...

Why is it mindless to refer to the difference in playing style following the departure of Poching and the replacement with Agar. It's the 2nd highest position in the club on the performance side.

Furthermore why do you have to counter an argument by insulting another forum member by calling their post "mindless"

Anyhow glad you found Warrington exciting, I didn't and neither did many others, and I hope you can understand when I say it is subjective.

If we don't win anything this year and get to another final then it's down to the players losing and not smith. We got to both finals and won the league leaders shield, so clearly smith is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing.

No question mark over big in-game management and Plan B's? That's 4 finals on a bounce we have lost. We looked devoid of ideas against Wigan in 2016 GF.

Plus it is a results business ...(so they say)

To be fair. Ts has brought us upto to where we are consistently challenging in all major competitions. Which is nothing too be sniffed at.
In a age where in any sport. The head coach/manager will be culled when results go their way is embarrassing.
A lot were calling for Tony smiths job after 2015. Look what happened 12 months later.
I like the fact that we as a club stand by the players. (Ben Harrison last year for example) and we stand by the coaches and management. We value them and don't see them as desposible to the fact that if things go wrong. We sack them. We give them time to turn things around and give them that chance.
It's good that ts is in his 8th year with us and he has consistently delivered for us.
3 challenge cups
2 league leaders shield.
4/5 times in a old Trafford final and another challenge cup final last year as well. It's not too be sniffed at. Give me any other coach in superleague who has that in his resume. (Apart from Tony Smith at Leeds) not even Shaun wayne at Wigan can boast it since 2013
Taking football. We are not the Chelsea or man city of rugby where they sack their coaches if they don't produce a title
I'm proud we are a club that takes care of everyone in the club.

We all know that Agar, while he is a coach, doesn't make decisions for how the team play. If we're saying that because of the time frame he has been coaching the club, then let's start pointing fingers at Lee Briers. After all, he is coaching the halves and leading on the tactical kick coaching, which we have been let down with for the previous 2 seasons despite investment in Gidley and Sandow. (I'm not blaming Briers, simply making a point)

Using Agar as a scapegoat is short sighted in my opinion. Players make decisions on the field, to run when they should pass, to kick when they should run and make errors on or over the line, and that is just in the Grand Final alone. It's sport, that's what is so compelling.

I like Smith i really do, but this reminds me of Arsenal fans calling Wenger out. Just remember what Smith has done for us and what finals we have been in, yes the losses to the finals hurt but we got there. If rather get to a final and lose than not get to one. IMO if we was to part ways with Tony, i would love a Wane type manager and im being serious. Hes Wigan to the core and you can tell that with the way the players are. We seem like we dont have that at the moment.

Anyway i think this year we will go one better i have faith!!!

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophy for that sport though, TS hasn't. Not with us anyway.

As i said in my earlier post. TS's last chance this year for me. Moran surely has to be saying 'i put a lot of money in, i want the big one, and you are consistently not delivering it' at some point, surely? He is a superb coach, no denying that, he has been the best coach weve ever had, But, how long do we keep saying its ok because we won 3 major trophies in four years. Latest being over 4 years ago.

Or am i being harsh?

I never used Agar as a scapegoat. I simply used the term "Agar period 2015-16".

So I think it is fair to discuss, what many believe, is that Warrington in the last 2 years have looked unable to score at times and often disorganised and lacking an attacking edge in the opposition 25. Furthermore when the going is tough (like the GF) we didn't seem to have a different style of playing. The fluent flowing rugby of 2010-2011 has gone.

Shaun Wane in 4 seasons has never failed to make the GF won 2 SL Titles and 1 x Challenge Cup and a Double.
He has never won a League Leaders Shield though, he can't boast that.

No one is suggesting Smith has not done wonders for Warrington, and is certainly the best post-War coach. But things get stale and, well the facts are, 4 years without a pot.

No you are being realistic in my view. This forum is odd at times. It usually takes a few more years for some people to catch up with what others can see right now.

as with Cullen we risk sticking with smith for a season or more too long.

when we get on a good roll and dominate teams we look good and can compete with any team on their day but as the grand final appearances show we cannot seem to grind out wins in tight important games and certainly don't seem to be able to cope with adversity in these games.

I feel the this will be a tough season for smith as we will have a slow start to the season hopefully we will come good at the end of the season. I think that a fair comparison is to compare us to Liverpool, they often are title contenders and beat the big sides like Chelsea nal Manu and Man City but then lose against sides like burnley or Watford, they are the games that cost Liverpool and also warrington too. so is it ability or mentality and commitment that were falling short on ?