Of that era only Hill and then the return of Cooper for Sims, survived.

Utter terrible recruitment, however the CEO is an untouchable.

Dodds was an unlucky signing not a bad one.

Kane Evans has been released to look at Super League options, had a few issues over the years but is a decent player.

Also, Mahe Fonua has been let go by Hull. Good winger/centre.

Oh come on, we'd all like to win the top prizes, but since 2013, despite "utter terrible recruitment" we've been to 2 GFs and 3 CC Finals, winning a CC and LLS.

So some players (and coaches) don't meet expectations, we're still up there competing.

"Been to finals" is exactly the cultural malaise in our club I think. Its like "there or thereabouts".

Since 2012 we have lost 5 out of 6 finals. Since 2018 we haven't won a single playoff game. Are we competing?

I'm as frustrated as every Wires fan that we've not won a GF, but in perspective if recruitment had really been 'utterly terrible' and the CEO as clueless as some suggest, we wouldn't even be in the running - we'd be back where Huddersfield etc are.

Rollback to pre-2010 we weren't even realistically competing with Saints, Wigan and Leeds for league points, never mind in major finals .

What I find odd is that at the end of the TS era, our signings made Poundland look like Harrods - Wheeler, Bailey, Pomeroy etc. Then SP came in and we're back to VIv Nicholson spend, spend, spend activity.

Did TS think he could turn a fee lumps of coal into diamonds? Had the board lost faith in TS ability to spend wisely?

I accept that TS was stale and a parting of the ways was the best solution, but I refuse to believe he wouldn't have achieved much more with that SP squad.

I know and I understand your point. Just for accuracy we did actually win the Challenge Cup in 2009 but I know what you mean - the super league period prior to Tony Smith taking over.

Are we in the running though? Our last 5 years are grim reading.

2017 - missed playoffs altogether. (people forget under Smith we finished in 9th below Wakefield, Salford and Huddersfield)
2018 - beaten finalists
2019 - out first round of playoffs
2020 - out first round of playoffs
2021 - out first round of playoffs

1 cup win in 9 years.

The club has been in decline since 2015 in reality which is when we lost a very astute CEO who transitioned us from near bankruptcy at Wilderspool into the HJ with challenge cup wins and GF appearances - Andy Gatcliffe. Since then poor leadership, poor appointments and poor recruitment has followed.

So yeah, right now we are "not bad" if we compare ourselves with the also rans of the league and the financially challenged. We are also "great" if you compare us to the Warrington of 2002. However compare ourselves with neighbours less than 10 miles away and we are light years away.

I have a horrible feeling that Wigan and Leeds may win a GF again before we do. Currently our trajectory is downwards, I just hope that Powell is enough to correct the higher level problems at the club and turn us around. I suspect he will be able to "manage" our current CEO and am quietly confident.

Depends where you start the trajectory. I'd say we are downwards from 2012, but over the past five years we've stabilised as a top 4 club who have recently lost the ability to win knock out games other than the occasional one off. Mainly against Wigan or St Helens in the Challenge Cup!

We peaked in 2011. Since then, it’s been a steady decline. But, with Morley, Carvell, Monaghan, Hodgson, Briers, Monaghan, Westwood, Wood, Solomona, Bridge and Higham all at the back end of their contracts we all knew that it was coming.

We just harboured hope of Ratchford, O’Brien, Myler and Clark being enough to steer the ship, but without replacing the firepower upfront (aside from Hill and Sims, the rest have been abject failures. Obviously Cooper was already in at that point, so is discounted).

I hate to say this, but if that replacement spine would have had the same firepower that the 2011 pack had, they could have cleaned up. It’s easier to be a good half in a dominant team.

Judging strictly on league performance we peaked in 2011 but you could make a case that the 2012 team which won the Challenge Cup and made the GF was even stronger. We added Chris Hill to the 2011 team and for the next couple of years we had 5 top class props: Morley, Carvell, Hill, Cooper and Wood. We used to utterly steamroller opponents with those guys.

By 2014, we only had one left: Hill. The others had been replaced by Asotasi, England, Ben Evans and Glenn Riley.

That platform that we had from the juggernaut rotation of the Big Five was gone, and we never got it back again. Cooper returning in 2017 helped, Ashton Sims was decent, but other than that it was guys like George King and Ryan Bailey and Dom Crosby and Sita, with an increasingly frustrated Hill trying to shoulder the load.

We could say a lot about whether signings have hit or missed in other positions but the front row must be a big driver of our overall decline: we went from having the best pack in the game to having a middle of the road pack and probably the weakest or one of the weakest of the teams that regarded themselves as 'contenders'.

Now with Hill leaving we look like we're in real trouble up front.

Not a dig at you at all, shiny, but there goes the "English/British disease"....... accepting being [inearly good enough[/i. We seem, as a nation, to champion the nearly man. For example, take a look at BBC Sorts Personality winners and places. It's LITTERED with plucky losers like Bruno and Mansell (pre them being champions), Henman, Rusedski, Gazza, Owen etc.. It's the British way. Wire epitomise this by extending Price's contract, and (if the earlier rumour is true) , giving Jason Clark another contract..... Sheeeesh

I'd be really disappointed with Jason Clark getting another contract, nothing against him at all and I do think he adds to the squad BUT he doesn't add enough and doesn't play the position we need to strengthen the most.

Put his wage towards a new prop or keep it free in case a quality prop unexpectedly becomes available during the course of the season.

He'll get a contract as there's nobody out there. We should keep the money and see what opportunities pop up as the year goes on. We don't need Jason clark as we have Matty davis, longstaff and Robson who bring just as much if not more than he does. Literally don't need him.

Agreed I think the rise of Longstaff now makes it a straight forward decision for me long term, however with us being down a prop and Harrison being out for the majority of 2022 it looks like we will be keeping hold of JClark rather than bringing someone in.