FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > Most underrated players for Wire in the SL era |
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "I wouldn't say he was underrated. He was a big name signing with a good reputation. In his first season he lived up to his reputation - part of a formidable right edge with Gleeson and Fa'afili like lefty says. Second season he faded away and when he left to go back to NZ I wasn't too disappointed.
I think its harder for blue chip signings to be underrated, unless they get an unwarranted amount of criticism (like Waterhouse).
Swann did have a good try scoring record for us, but overall in his two years he slightly underdelivered compared to what I was expecting.
Louis Anderson came with a similar background and reputation to Swann when he signed, but delivered a lot more overall.'"
Not wishing to devalue the contribution from Louis Anderson, but we'll never know how Swann would have performed had he been in a pack with Morley and Carvell as starting props, and Tony Smith as coach.
The circumstances of when Swann and Anderson played were very different.
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74166_1608576718.jpeg Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_74166.jpeg |
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| Quote: ratticusfinch "Matt Davis, Jason Clark are players that are steady and never let you down. Waterhouse was well above that level. He probably was in 3rd/4th gear for us but he was very, very good. Louis was also very good, really good big game player as well.
Riley is probably the best call for underrated player, he played consistently at a very high standard.'"
I don’t think J Clark was under rated last season, he was one of those overseas players that maybe are better able to be judged after 2 seasons, a bit like Matt King.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "How about Darren Burns for an underrated player, maybe not from Wire fans but around the league in general.
Who do you think was better for us, Burns or Waterhouse?'"
Not saying who was the better player, but Burns stepped up when the chips were down and we stared into the abyss of relegation. Without Burns, we wouldn't have seen Waterhouse.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "Riley for sure.
Usually fans have positive bias towards Warrington-born, Academy-produced talent and overhype the few that do come through. Riley never got much appreciation despite scoring a hundred odd tries, winning three Challenge Cups and holding down a place in our strongest team for decades. He never even got the hometown folk hero reputation that Mark Forster had. It felt like a lot of our fans didn't really think he was good enough and thought we could do better. You couldn't use the Fa'afili argument (he only got all those tries because of playing outside Gleeson) because most of the time he played outside Ryan Atkins, who everyone says never passed to his winger.
A few years before Riley emerged, we had Dean Gaskell, and it felt like the fans were always on his side, chanting 'Deano Deano' and willing him to make it, even though he never scored. Riley always scored tries but never had the same goodwill.
I wonder if some of it was because Kevin Penny emerged at a similar time, and most people would have preferred Penny because he was a more exciting prospect, but Riley won that selection battle as he was more consistent when Penny went through his flaky form. Possibly some fans thought that if we'd have persevered with Penny we'd have had a player with an extra yard of pace, and that Riley was like settling for the lesser option but I don't agree, Riley was better equipped to handle SL.
The other thing I really liked with Riley was he came back from being written off a couple of times. How often have we seen young players go through a bad spell of form, get dropped, sent out on loan and then their career disappears into the lower leagues. A narrative then often gets created around them that they were 'treated disgracefully' by whoever was coach at the time and they would have been a great if only we'd persevered with them. But that happened to Riley after we signed Joel Monaghan and he was sent off to Harlequins on loan, but he came back and won his place back in the team and was one of the top try scorers for the next couple of seasons. He also adapted to being moved from wing to fullback without fuss.
An excellent Wire winger
Thanks Sally - that's pretty much what I would have said, so you've saved me a lot of typing! Chris Riley, we salute you.
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| Quote: MorePlaymakersNeeded "Not wishing to devalue the contribution from Louis Anderson, but we'll never know how Swann would have performed had he been in a pack with Morley and Carvell as starting props, and Tony Smith as coach.
The circumstances of when Swann and Anderson played were very different.'"
If Swann had played in the peak TS team then he would have been a real handful running out wide on the right edge with King/Bridge and Hicks/Joel Monaghan. Swann was probably more of a threat to the opposition than Louis Anderson was.
The reason I put LA ahead of Swann is on consistency. He was good in his first season 2008, when the team wasn't (Cullen's final season/Lowes took over) and our two big signings Michael Monaghan and Matt King struggled that season. With LA we got a consistent level regardless of how the rest of the team was playing. Swann was hot when the team was in form and then in his second season when the team struggled, he faded away too. You could say the same about that whole famous right edge of Swann, Gleeson and Fa'afili. In 2006 they were way down off where they'd been in 2005.
I don't think Swann was a bad player or a signing bust, I just wouldn't have categorised him as underrated. He was like Simon Gillies. Gillies was only here for one season, but we had a good run of form where Gillies was great, scoring tries, had Toa running off him. Then the final month or so of the season we were garbage and he disappeared. Swann was like that but over 2 seasons.
Louis Anderson was more like Darren Burns, you knew that when things were falling apart around him, he was still going to deliver. Ben Westwood, Paul Wood, Simon Grix all fit that category too. It was noticeable when TS took over, which players from the Cullen era he stuck with long term.
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| Quote: sally cinnamon "Louis Anderson was more like Darren Burns, you knew that when things were falling apart around him, he was still going to deliver. Ben Westwood, Paul Wood, Simon Grix all fit that category too. It was noticeable when TS took over, which players from the Cullen era he stuck with long term.'"
Bang on Sally. I was gutted when louis Anderson left us and would have been happy to see him return at absolutely any point between him leaving and his retirement. Him and Westwood in the second row could handle absolutely anything that was thrown at them! Possibly the toughest 2nd row in wire history, certainly in my time. Grix was my favourite player for a while, he had everything a real shame he was cut down in his prime the try he scored when he dummied a kick over the top was genius, absolutely spot on with his decision making. Wood was overshadowed at the time by carvel and morley but I'd absolutely love Paul Wood coming off the bench at interchange now.
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| Quote: Moe syslak "I can't believe anyone didn't rate warehouse when he was playing for us. The bloke was immense! I still cringe thinking about that thread on here where the majority of fans wanted us to swap him with Danny kirmond!!!
If he and hodgson had played in that 2013 grand final we would not still be getting mocked with always your year chants.'"
If Waterhouse had held onto that pass 3 metres out against Leeds in the GF, we wouldn't be hearing those chants either. Turning point of the game.
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| Chris Bridge
Trent Waterhouse
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| Bridge for his last 3 or 4 years was fantastic at centre, and I was sad to see him go.
Problem was those injury hit 5 or so years at the start of his Wires career, when he was being in/out of the team and bounced around different positions.
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| Quote: shinymcshine "Bridge for his last 3 or 4 years was fantastic at centre, and I was sad to see him go.
Problem was those injury hit 5 or so years at the start of his Wires career, when he was being in/out of the team and bounced around different positions.'"
Bridge was a good servant for us and underrated. Ten years he was here and scored 104 tries in 228 games and kicked 209 goals. Th couple of seasons he had with Joel outside of him he was on fire and I remember Joel saying when he left how highly he thought of him.
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| I put it straight to Paul Cullen that had Bridge stayed...’out of trouble’, you’d still be a Warrington.
“It’s interesting you should say that....”
Make of it what you want.
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74166_1608576718.jpeg Just my opinions unless it's a FACT, in which case it's a fact.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_74166.jpeg |
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| One of the hardest things for a fan to understand is why players, in general, are not as invested in the club as we are. Rationally we understand it is their job, but emotionally given that we would all do just about anything to pull on the jersey to play we just don’t get it. Which is probably why most players are very careful not to be as blatant about their intentions as A Gregory was.
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| Andy Gregory gave 100% when he played. He wasn’t looking to go Pies. He went because he fell out with the coach as he did at Widnes. The disappointment was that it was something that could have been resolved as Wire were on the threshold of being better than Wigan. AG had the opportunity to take an average side into the history books...alas he went then to a team that didn’t need him and offered little but to continue their status quo.
I do know that he played the Wigan club too, to suit him. There was one particular day that a doubles golf game was due the same time as a Wigan match, he told the club he wasn’t fit and played golf.
He had said more recently he loved his time at Wire, we’d built a great team and didn’t want to move, and some regret he didn’t stay longer.
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Fly away, Far away,
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| Think you lads have drifted off the wrong thread??....
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| What about Paul Cullen as an underrated player? I know the title is "in the SL era" but I'll sneak him in to the conversation as he is such a significant figure in club history.
I think Cullen got taken for granted in his playing days. I saw the later half of his career, where he was largely a back rower, and I thought he was very good. For me he had the best attitude of any player I've seen in the Wire jersey. Not just about his drive to get the best out of his talent and his commitment to the club. He had incredible mental strength for being able to switch on to a challenge. I don't remember ever seeing him play in a game and thinking he wasn't "up for it". He was never overawed by big games or seem to show any nerves. He wasn't afraid of any opponents or reputations, and he wouldn't coast against lesser teams, he was always competitive. He missed his one chance to play at Wembley because of getting suspended which must have been gutting, but he knew it was his own fault and he just sucked it up and got on with it.
I don't remember him playing centre or stand-off but I thought he played at a pretty high level, for a number of years, when he was in the pack.
I wonder how Cullen would have done if he'd played 20 years later, he would have thrived in the full time professional era. Imagine having Westwood, Cullen and Harrison in the back row in TS side. I bet he'd have played for England.
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