we are unbeaten at langtree park all be it 1 game but we have only won once at hj v saints so maybe playing at lp isnt a bad thing im still confident anyways

Arf. Frustration innit.

Being serious I remember in my teens and early twenties going to watch Wire regularly and if I'm being brutally honest I didn't really care when we lost because in the bigger picture it meant nothing anyway. Yeah, obviously I wanted us to win - especially in derby matches - but we were never likely to either win a trophy or get relegated so come the end of the season it would simply be normal service.

Now the expectation levels have been raised considerably and the standard of rugby I'm watching every week is an awful lot better, I really hate these play off things!

The main thing that disappoints me about yesterday isn't us not being a big club, it's the farce of the system, that a team that finished 2nd in the league, and has been comprehensively beaten at home in their first playoff, can still end up the season as champions! How is that fair? If we win it will make a mockery of the sport. The champions should be Wigan who finished top, that is the biggest achievement.

We would have finished top if we hadn't sacrificed the London game for Wembley. How does that fit with your theory ?

Everyone needs to get a grip, we got beat in a game,this is sport this happens, if it didn't nobody would watch it. I hate this 'Big club' thing it's just arrogance to go around saying who is and isn't a big club and how yeserdays result affects it baffles me. Because of one defeat we are now rubbish? This is the playoff system, we may or may not go on to win it, no team can win every game they play in. We have lost some cup games in the last few years and won go on to win cups in the last few years. we have a great team with a bright future regardless of if we win the super league trophy or not.

We are not a big club at all only saints are a big club as Eddie Hemmings says in the play offs the big boys come out to play. clearly indicating we are not one of those big boys.

he talks tremendous sense so i'll believe what he says.

maybe if we play Catalan dragons in the olympic stadium in Barcelona next year and there are almost twenty thousand fans there and we were holders of the challenge cup I can only wish we were a big club.......

A loss is a loss....You used your second chance, we have to use ours.

The point is, having to play in week 2 is no disadvantage - What has happened to those with byes in week 2 in the last couple of seasons?...

Complete tosh.

I think you go have a a walk around your wardrobe.

I think this idea of " Big club, little club,cardboard box " is because our fans listen to opposing fans who convince us we are a little club by opening the biggest mouths in the country which are connected to the emptiest heads in the country ; most of these clubs are envious that we have never been out of the top flight of RL ,now, that is a big club ! What also doesn't help is that when we win a big game the media say it is a bad day at the office for the losers whereas when we lose a similar game we are "well beaten".
Re Wigan in 2010 ...they were made to look good at Old Trafford by a poor Saints performance in the rain that day. Unfortunately,Saints usually are below par on GF day which is usually a wet day & maybe they struggle against Leeds who can cope with the weather better.

So, in the last 4 yrs we've won silverware every year, yet the inability to reach the Play Off final means that we're not a "big club" ?

Simply nonsense !

Wigan sacrificed the game against Saints last week and also they sacrificed one against Widnes earlier in the season. They have been the best team overall this season.

I think what DM is putting too much of a divide between established top clubs and an emerging top club like ours.

Success in sport is primarily built from good financial backing, then the right people have to be put in place with that money. Look back through the history books of all sports and that is the start of every story for everyone who has succeeded and page one will show you a rich backer coming in to invest in them. Whether it's as simple as investing in facilities and coaches in a youth set-up or going as far as buying the best players at the elite first team level, it's all about the money.

Wigan RL were invested in in the 1980s and turned professional almost monopolising rugby for themselves before anyone else could get their foot in the door; from United in the 1950s to Celtic in the 1960s to Barcelona in the present day (investment in youth); from Arsenal in the 1920s to Real Madrid in the 1950s to Chelsea in recent years (investment in first team); "The Mersey Millions" that both Merseyside clubs benefitted from; looking at this Summer of the 2012 London Olympics (unprecidented National Lottery funding gearing towards medal success); the American dream is all about money, you get nowt over there for free; what City are doing right now...I could go on and on.

Everything about success is built on investment. Nothing just happens because a club is special or a manager works magic out of nowhere.

Until very recently Wire had little to no money. There was talk of us struggling badly at times. But investment came our way and since then it's been like we've been a completely different club to what we were in recent decades. For years we had an old stadium that needed updating, that's changed. For years we had fairly poor crowds, that's changed. For years we produced hardly any young talent, that's changed. For years we didn't win a trophy, that's changed. But before all those changes there were already clubs that had been in that position for years, some for decades. We're just getting up to that level and are only just starting to establish ourselves as a top club.

After a while of being established everyone forgets about that initial backing that dragged a club from wherever they were to where they're going or where they've ended up. Nobody has a Devine right to be a top club, nobody should have monopoly of success and history tells us that the same teams never stay at the top. There's always someone else. Swinton used to be a top club so did Salford, Preston used to be a top club is footy so did Burnley, but times changed. Wigan Saints Leeds and Bradford haven't always been the top clubs winning all the trophies. And look; Bradford haven't won a trophy in six years, Saints haven't won a trophy in four years...Wire have won 3 Challenge Cups and the SL LLS in the last four years.

We aren't the nearly men like some have said very recently. Catalans reached a Challenge Cup final and Grand Final Eliminator - losing both. That's what 'nearly' is. I'll say again, we've won four trophies in four years. The only clubs who match that are Wigan who have done the same and Leeds who are freaks and have reached something like 14 of the last 26 finals that are possible to reach (winning eight).

People need to get rid of this inferiority complex now. I'll say for a third time, we've wonhttp://www.therhinos.co.uk/images/news/challenge_cup_wembley_rdax_529x285.jpg" >







...in the last four years.

Come on lads n lasses...now the Wire!

Warrington have all the potential to be as big, if not bigger, than St Helens.