I still just don't see this "wonder centre". He is not even the best centre at Wigan. He is solid, hard to put down, offloads freely and good at catching cross field kicks. He is not particularly evasive, or fast, and I have never seen him make space from nothing and slip a pass to his winger.

No doubt he had a better season with Wigan in 2023 than he did with us in the season previously where I think he managed 1 or 2 tries in the half season that followed his contract extension before he was ejected. I congratulate him on his GF win but that does not make him an exceptional player. Ryan Bailey, (the oft cited example), has a bucket full of GF wins.

But we will see when he comes back, clean slate.

I’m not sure on this. King has been superb this year, not just in those glossy areas but in carries, meters, offloads, tackle busts… he has contributed to the team really well. Still made double figures for both tries and assists.

In truth, he’s done everything that Ratchford and Matautia didn’t in 2023.

Back in the England squad again too, granted without Farnworth available so might not have made it without that, but Wane (who has an inside view to his year being inside the Wigan system) must like what he has seen.

It was difficult to watch our player in a Wigan kit winning the grand final at the weekend. Even worse that we were paying part of his salary. Sad indictment of the management of the club over the past few years.

Completely agree with this. He has been superb for Wigan.

I’m struggling to understand what people expect from a centre these days.

I think people have this perception that good centres have to make tackle busts every carry like Inglis in his prime, have the pace of Offiah, the offload of Gene Miles and defensive capabilities of Dean Bell.

I genuinely cannot think of many centres in the modern game on either side of the World that have this mystical “strike” ability people seem to crave.

The modern game generally sees the primary creator of tries to the winger as the fullback he generally also provides the strike.

King when used to his strengths is an excellent centre.

Strong carry, great work ethic, good offload and can put his winger away.

This whole create something out of nothing line is almost like people think SL is under 12s rugby.

Defences are generally very well organised. All players rely on space except the very special ones and they tend to be fullbacks.

I’d much rather Wigan retained King than had to recruit Keighran.

Wardle has caught the headlines in the last couple of months but over the course of the year King has been the more effective of the 2 in 2023.

OK I don't agree with the "superb" adjective. If we are going into stats he still misses a lot of tackles 46/362 and I have never been convinced of his defensive reads or positioning. But that's all fine we can disagree. If I could have the choice I would much prefer Wardle.

Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?

Fair enough. Don't forget I am probably jaundiced after watching him sulking for half a season before Powell ejected him. Anyway, hypothetical question, if faced with a choice of losing King or Wardle, which one would you keep?

crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!

Quote: jonh "Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote: jonh "I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote: jonh "Didn’t his loss of form also coincide with a shift to the left centre with Warrington?'" No. He was in decent form, signed the massive contract under Price in May 2021 then the form fell off a cliff. Then Powell came in and they had a fall out. Quote: jonh "I want a certain type of centre and to be fair to Toby, there’s no doubt that he’s got a lot of potential but after he got his contract here last year he kind of stalled'" https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote: The_runaround "crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

Quote: The_runaround "crazy isn't it that professional people within successful clubs and structures rate him yet warrington fans dont.....I know who I will go with wages are irrelevant people go on about hi wages as if that is a guarantee that he will perform to a certain standard, we dont know what he is paid. but only 50k of it counts to the cap so I do not see why they are concerned with what he is paid !!!'" See the quote from Powell. He was a "professional person". Toby was poor for us after he got his contract, that is undisputed fact. Huddersfield didn't want to keep him either. He is a different player now at Wigan. No doubt due to their standards and professionalism. I am just sceptical of his character and attitude. Let's see what player we get back. https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/warringt ... tre-58007/

If Burgess wants king back then I'm good with it. I always liked Toby King and I think the step out of his comfort zone and year with Wigan will see him return to us a much more mature and better all round player. I'm not sure about Tai, I haven't seen anything of him, but again if Burgess wants him then that will be good enough for me until I've seen enough to form an opinion on him.

I think we will be a lot better in the centres next season, its a very low bar to compare against though.

Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left.

Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left.

As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year.

I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.

Quote: jonh "Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Quote: jonh "Well they play different positions King is a right centre and Wardle is a left. Ironic that Wardle fell out with Hudds because he was told he was going to play right and Kings perceived sulking and drop in form came when he was moved to the left. As I said earlier of the 2 over the course of the year I think King has been most effective. Wardle though kicked on towards the back end of the year. I’d have to go with King though personally as I think his contributions will be harder to replace. I don’t believe Keighran will be as effective as King from a team point of view, and we will have to change our style a little to accommodate him which has partly been the reason we have gone big on forwards in 2024.'" King's best form (with us) was at left centre, he played right in his younger days as he was coming through first team, but see news article below. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... k-belongs/ I don't expect a centre like Inglis when discussing a 'Strike' centre. But I do expect a marquee centre to be able to create something themselves be that through power, pace, skill or a passing game. King does the tough stuff very well, is very good in yardage but he isn't a marquee centre - again not his issue, but it is something we have to contend with and consider when we look at having him back in the squad, which links back to your original question. Would you welcome him back on marquee wages?

Yes I agree. I am hoping we will see a big change under Burgess. I am also painfully aware I was hoping the same thing two years ago with Powell.

All will be revealed.

This quote would appear to completely negate your argument that it was Warrington moving him to the left that caused the loss of form.