If these industries were paying their way then why did they end up closing down?

The argument seems to be that the government should have subsidised them to keep them open, which doesn't sound like the country paying its way, it sounds more like other businesses were having to pay their way for them.

The harsh fact was the UK manufacturing sector was not as competitive as its foreign counterparts, ie when you take into account productivity against wages at home compared to abroad, other countries were producing things at better value for money. So it makes sense that the UK focuses on things where it is more productive than other countries (ie the financial services sector) and exports these services and imports manufactured goods from abroad.

Of course the UK being heavily based on the financial services sector meant we were more exposed than most others when the global crash came in 2008, given that that was a crash of the financial services sector. Taking that into account, the UK has come out of it not as badly off as it could have done, when you see the disasters that have befallen places like Greece, Ireland, and the looming problems in Portugal, Spain etc, the UK has ridden out the storm fairly well, so all these people who think the UK economy is a basketcase are well off the mark.

Also our manufacturing sector is not completely dead, certain things like pharmaceuticals the UK is still a world leader.

I think people overestimate manufacturing and producing things - in the era when we had more of a manufacturing economy (in the 1960s and 1970s) were things great back then? No we had massive problems with inflation, unemployment, strikes, industrial unrest, worse than we do today. If we wanted to reorient our economy back to being a manufacturing economy then we would need to compete with China, Germany etc, which would mean we would need to start cutting wages and the overall standard of living significantly until we had got our productivity levels back to theirs. Remember as well that in China, where the government artificially pushes down the value of their currency to make their exports cheap to the rest of the world, their domestic citizens suffer in terms of cripplingly high prices for anything that is imported, so their standards of living are much lower than in Europe/USA.

.............and wilderspool manufactured so many memories not all of them good.

whittle brothers leather factory were dfs is top place to work that was.

A lack of investment over many decades and a lack of understanding from the country's decision makers. There are too many people with financial and legal backgrounds in government and not enough engineers and scientists.

I can remember when Wire got to Wembley in 1974 I was at Thames Board and they said only so many could have the weekend off to go to the game....
Not a problem I rang up British Steel on Dallam Lane and started there the following week AND went to Wembley !!! Those were the days

The decision makers understood exactly what the situation was. Look at the industries which are being talked about on this thread, generally heavily labour intensive production plants who were producing things which weren't in enough demand. If the government had endlessly gone on subsidising them then the UK economy would have slipped backwards into the dark ages, we would have been trying to compete with countries who have large pools of low paid manual workers, who are willing to work for low wages, which is why their manufactured goods are more competitive.

Which would have forced us into the unpalatable position where to match their productivity we would have needed to accept much lower wages, something which would have caused mass industrial unrest. UK workers aren't willing to do that as can be seen by the hostility towards eastern European workers who 'come over here and work for lower wages', yes that's exactly what they do and exactly what they do overseas as well.

There is an argument I agree that there has been underinvestment in technical education, compare the UK to Germany for instance, the technical education over there is much better. Germany is not competitive because it is paying ultra low wages, its competitive because they have very high levels of technical education, and are very efficient at producing high quality products. The education system in the UK is different but the UK is not bad, the higher education system in the UK for example is much better developed in Germany and the service sector in the UK especially the financial services sector is much better developed in the UK. As that's where our comparative advantage is why not specialise in it? The services sector in the UK brings money in, the City brings in huge amounts of money, far more than we would have got through trying to artificially prop up declining manufacturing industries which could not compete with overseas competitors.

The world has moved on, there is not the demand for these heavily labour intensive manufactured goods any more. People want cheaply produced hi tech electronic equipment like the stuff the Japanese produce. Also I am not sure the younger generation really miss these old industries, were they really good places to work, or were they noisy dirty smelly places with bad health and safety records....we may as well say what happened to the old cotton mill industry!

I just love Reading Sallys posts,Better than the Independent or the Telegraph!

Quote: woolston wolf "Metro Cutanics (Grappenhall) BT Depot Ireland st Castle Rubber Cappers Orford Meat Co Wrights of Lymm'" Wrights of Lymm still going just moved premises www.stonehouses.co.uk/ Whittles brothers Mersey St going back there - What about Douglas Gandys across the road from Whittles Have guess what they sold there - (I had a pair?) www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=6 ... topic=3773

Quote: woolston wolf "Metro Cutanics (Grappenhall) BT Depot Ireland st Castle Rubber Cappers Orford Meat Co Wrights of Lymm'" Wrights of Lymm still going just moved premises www.stonehouses.co.uk/ Whittles brothers Mersey St going back there - What about Douglas Gandys across the road from Whittles Have guess what they sold there - (I had a pair?) www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=6 ... topic=3773

I'm at Hull University and we still get them coming down the road most days looking like steptoe and son complete with scabby looking horse and cart!

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Bloody woke me up this morning.

ELEVEN O'CLOCK!!!!

Sometimes i wonder why i am student.

Do they still shout RAG BONE at the top of their voices!!!!Eh as if you dont know what they want!Mi dad use to say wait here and lets see if the Rag and Bone man as got ewt worth robbing..

I was awoken the other day by the florist across the road singing oh what a beautiful morning at the top of his voice every time someone walked past.



Don't stop on my road they go down all the side roads so I just hear him shouting the horse along.

Ah, I live in such a sophisticated metropolitan city...

Not had that. Where bouts is that?

I'm in Marlborough house on Prinnie Ave

Hull is a crackin' city I love it. However I somehow ended up in Bransholme shopping centre today and that is without doubt the wierdest place I have ever visited, it was like a scene from dawn of the dead remixed with an iceland advert.