And Bateman.

Again, the risk is in assuming that all the players we have retained provide the exact same performance in 2025 as they did in 2024. It assumes strengthening only happens through signings.

If Wrench or Tai, and Holroyd or Whitehead, improve by the same factor as Dufty and Currie did between 2023 and 2024, we will have strengthened. Obviously the challenge is on the coaching team to deliver that.

On the plus side Holroyd's improvement ought to continue. The concern will be how Fitzgibbon will recover.

Can only hope the surgeon and the club are confident with the recovery/rehab and that barring other injuries or suspension we can get a full season from him.

I must admit to currently feeling a bit flat about our prospects for next season. I think this year has been really good, and there's no reason to believe that we won't go well again in 2025, but do I see us being better than Wigan? No.
Unfortunately, I think Wigan are going to dominate for a few seasons, and if we want to seriously and consistently challenge them, we need to be making signings on a completely different level to Leyland, Russell and the RU Sevens mystery man, who feel more like Steve Anderson era acquisitions to me. In addition, I echo Wires71's concerns that the Vegas sideshow and its aftermath will likely harm our league prospects.
Sorry to be a downer, and I obviously hope I'm completely wrong and end up with egg on my face, but 2025 just feels like it's going to be a bit of a 'treading water' kind of season.

Holroyd has already shown he has ferocious defence to his game. Whether or not that is sustainable at 14 stone is another thing. I hope he's able to really pile the bulk on this close season.

Fitzgibbon, if fit, is arguably the best all round second rower in the league so I hope he makes a full recovery. We can't afford to have a top level quota player out with injury for too long.

I know you can't attribute one single thing to us not winning the gf this year, but im gonna do that right now.

Fitzgibbon's back and shoulder injury (2 things ok)

I'm almost 100% certain that if he stays fully fit we've got enough in attack to win big games.

Just think how effective that was early season, dufty and Ashton have still been but add fitz's hands back into that,

Thewlis over Miski clearly.
Marshall over Ashton just.
Williams over French. There is more to Williams complete game than that of French.

Marshall over Ashton?!! Even wigan fans would disagree with you on that one(Including a certain sean wane!)

These are the marginal ones. I wouldn't swap any of our three for any of theirs, and they wouldn't swap any back the other way.

I wouldn’t swap them either, but there has been something in Marshall’s game and discipline that hadn’t been there quite so profound. His vision and short kicking game had been superb.
I have to say this season he has been better than Ashton. Imo.

Thewlis over Miski this year is fair enough. He's been carrying a knee injury for a lot of this season though, and his 2023 form was outstanding. It remains to be seen if with a full off season he can properly recover and recapture that form, but if he can't I'd expect Eckersley to come in and take his place anyway.

I can 100% see why you'd say that about Williams. I'd still have French in front of him with my Wigan bias, but there's not much that you want from a half back that Williams can't do. Having Smith take responsibility for so much of the organisation gives us the luxury of having someone a bit more mercurial alongside him, whereas Williams probably doesn't really get that from Drinkwater as much as he should. What I'd say though is that French - for all he gets noticed for his individual attacking - has developed into a much more rounded player than I thought possible. When he was out for a couple of months we missed his right-edge defence as much as anything else.

I hope you are right but remember we were 12-2 down at HT in the CCF and Fitzgibbon played the first half. We had a full side out save for Philbin.

On that I think we let the occasion get to us. Other than that Fitzgibbon for me had been our most influential player. I really hope we can get him back like that for the whole season.

Don't get me wrong I think Fitzgibbon is a great attacking 2nd rower.

Re: occasion - I wasn't buying the inexperienced/caught in headlights argument though for our final performance. We had a good number of experienced players all over the field

Rod Tai - International. Played in World Cup
Toby King - International, won a CCF and GF
Ben Currie - already won a CCF
Matty Ashton - International
George Williams - International, GF winner
John Drinkwater - already won a CCF, GF appearance.
Vaughan, SOO, International
Fitzgibbon - NRL GF winner.
Powell - Multiple GF winner
Bullock - GF appearance
Dufty - 90+ NRL games
Musgrove - 70+ NRL games


Wigan were, and are, just better than us currently. I guess Sam couldn't say that at the time. But no disgrace - we are currently (probably) the 3rd best team in SL which is a remarkable turnaround from 20th August 2023 when we were 8 losses on the bounce and at our lowest ebb in recent memory.