FORUMS > Warrington Wolves > 12th Team. |
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| Is there any confirmation of how many would definitely take up the offer of a place in SL under these circumstances (they could change) and at this time?
Teams may have ambitions for SL but might feel compelled to wait until they are ready rather than scramble and struggle effectively putting them back in their planning.
The problem is time but you could make a case for certainly 4 teams possibly 6 and ideally you'd have a play off at least an attempt at meritocracy imo
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| Quote: CW8 "I'd give the 12th team 2 seasons. In the absence of fans it's very hard to see the chpionship going ahead so hard to see promotion/ relegation anyway.
Toulouse are the standout contenders but travel is very likely to be a problem. I'd love to just rename barrow Cumbria raiders for the season and see if it works with a Cumbria side. Give them 2 seasons, it's about time cumbria was involved again.'"
You'd get plenty of Cumbrians arguing Barrow wasn't in Cumbria, and it's quite a long way from the Cumbrian rugby heartlands, but I'd agree, a Cumbrian team would be a boost to an area that traditionally produces it's fair share of players. It would probably need to be based around Whitehaven & Workington, who obviously have a traditional rivalry but you would hope would come together under a Cumbrian banner. A merger wouldn't work, but possibly still having Workington & Whitehaven in the lower leagues with a professional Cumbrian team might?
It would need a lot of money thrown at it, new stadium, and the population isn't huge around there to bring in the 6k fans minimum you need to compete, 50k between the two towns - it would be difficult to sustain I think.
I'd love to bring Toulouse in under a 2 year franchise. But where would that then leave the Championship? Would the backers and fans of Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax etc etc be interested in the Championship if there was a closed shop? Especially given they are likely to get reduced funding in 2021, would it be fair to relegate Hull KR / Wakey if Toulouse finished bottom. The ideal answer is a 14 team franchise comp with plans in place to expand - but it feels like we are further away from that than ever given the state of finances currently. Rugby League is at a difficult point at the moment
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| Quote: Uncle Rico "Is there any confirmation of how many would definitely take up the offer of a place in SL under these circumstances (they could change) and at this time?
Teams may have ambitions for SL but might feel compelled to wait until they are ready rather than scramble and struggle effectively putting them back in their planning.
The problem is time but you could make a case for certainly 4 teams possibly 6 and ideally you'd have a play off at least an attempt at meritocracy imo'"
It's an important point, I think the likes of Toulouse, Leigh, possibly London through David Hughes have the backing to spend to cap, but they are seriously behind the 8 ball when it comes to recruitment, and by the time SL kicks off next year, much of their current squad wont have played a game for 12 months - so they are bound to start slow which will heap the pressure on. Then they have a big financial outlay in 2021 with the most likely outcome a relegation the following year, so the break up of a squad, it could absolutely set them back.
Featherstone I'm not sure, but Bradford, Newcastle & York just need to keep growing from where they are. It's too soon for them I think.
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| The focus, pre COVID, was on growth. In particular by tapping into the potential of overseas markets (France, Canada, USA).
Now we are in survival mode so a 12th team has to provide the top flight with a net gain. That means a club with an established, but possibly dormant, fan base and who are prepared to take less of the TV pot meaning that they need a wealthy backer. Bradford could potentially attract the fans but, if the fail after 2 years (and they probably would), then it would destroy all the rebuilding that has been going on for a few years.
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| All these posts simply reinforcing my earlier argument on this forum, that relegation is an outdated system & that we need to change to 3-5 yearly licensing system, allowing both new and existing SL clubs the certainty to be able to plan properly for the future.
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| Quote: Dita's Slot Meter "All these posts simply reinforcing my earlier argument on this forum, that relegation is an outdated system & that we need to change to 3-5 yearly licensing system, allowing both new and existing SL clubs the certainty to be able to plan properly for the future.'"
A licensing syatem is fine, but there have to be conditions and failure to meet them must result in expulsion. One of the conditions should be mandatory reserve team, the other should be scrutiny of annual accounts and the other should be mandatory minimum spend on marketing.
Otherwise, clubs simply tread water safe fron relegation but with no desire or intent to improve themselves or the competition.
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| We did licensing already. People got fed up and complained there were to many dead rubbers, so they got rid of it, and if we reintroduce it the same will happen.
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| Toulouse or London for me. I still think we need a Southern based club, but Toulouse would help the game in France.
I know Fev are a traditional team but I don’t see what they add to SL. Bratfurt have been in administration rather too often for my liking. Leigh, similar to Fev.
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| Quote: Captain Hook "Toulouse or London for me. I still think we need a Southern based club, but Toulouse would help the game in France.
I know Fev are a traditional team but I don’t see what they add to SL. Bratfurt have been in administration rather too often for my liking. Leigh, similar to Fev.'"
How are you comparing Leigh to Fev?
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| Quote: Cokey "How are you comparing Leigh to Fev?'"
Traditional team, not sure what they would add to SL. I have nothing against Leigh but still think we need to expand. I realise this is hurtful and if our roles were reversed I would be outraged. Sorry.
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| Quote: Captain Hook "Traditional team, not sure what they would add to SL. I have nothing against Leigh but still think we need to expand. I realise this is hurtful and if our roles were reversed I would be outraged. Sorry.'"
The game is on its knees, and you want to expand? Do you know what mess TWP have just caused? BTW - Your post is not hurtful at all,it's plain daft.
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| Quote: Cokey "The game is on its knees, and you want to expand? Do you know what mess TWP have just caused? BTW - Your post is not hurtful at all,it's plain daft.'"
I'm not advocating Toulouse over Leigh but to use your insightful comment comparing Toulouse to Toronto is plain daft.
Do they play Rugby League in the south of France is it 3500 miles away would they have a ready made local derby?
Im not sure how the TV cake would be cut with then in compared to you or London and I get that you are a well supported club that brings plenty of fans to perhaps compensate for a reduced share but Toulouse isn't Toronto (rightly kicked out imo) and if it was a short term fix before we hopefully return to some form of normality why not take a bold gamble?
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| Quote: Cokey "The game is on its knees, and you want to expand? Do you know what mess TWP have just caused? BTW - Your post is not hurtful at all,it's plain daft.'"
This is very different to Toronto. I’d say Catalan have been a success since their inclusion, the reason that worked and Toronto didn’t (yet) is because the roots were already there. Toulouse will grow in the SL competition, and I think we would see more French players playing the game at a professional level over time. They also I believe have everything in place to give it a shot.
On Leigh’s side, it would probably be an easier and safer decision to put them in in some regards. There is a money man there, they will pay to the cap most likely and away fans will certainly be up, especially for the NW teams, so there is a more obvious financial benefit to having Leigh in the comp.
For me Leigh have had a couple of goes at SL and not made it, I’d like Toulouse to have a shot, that’s nothing against Leigh, I just see more potential for Rugby League if we offer it to Toulouse. The possibility of a French TV deal, no matter how small should be incentive enough.
For me the order is Toulouse - London - Leigh.
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| I think whatever we do we need to first ask the question 'is it sustainable ?'. There is no point in promoting a club to SL only to see them drop out one or two years later. For me, that means
A strong financial backer
A good quality stadium of around 15,000 located centrally to a large population area
Two - three years guaranteed in SL
Feeder clubs and a youth academy already established
I fully understand that Championship supporters wan't their team to get into SL, but the chances of them staying there need to be reasonably high. And there is little enough money in SL for us to squander it with a poorly argued case for inclusion, regardless of how passionate the supporters may be or how strong their current team may be.
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| Quote: FlexWheeler "We did licensing already. People got fed up and complained there were to many dead rubbers, so they got rid of it, and if we reintroduce it the same will happen.'"
This is the problem, there is no ideal solution to this. Licensing gives better financial security and you have a lever to drive clubs in the right way. As others have said make it a requirement for each club to run its own scholarship / academy programme and a reserves team. Make growth of the local amateur game a requirement, minimum salary cap spend etc etc. It also gives clubs financial security to plan for the future. BUT you are correct, there will always be a sense of dead rubbers from some games as the season progresses. There’s no real way round that, unless franchises were taken away for consistent bottom of the table league positions.
On P&R there is excitement right to the last weekend - I’m sure sky would prefer it, so there is a strong case to run that model if your biggest financial partner would prefer it. However for me it promotes short term thinking of teams like Salford not running an academy set up and I don’t believe the game is strong enough to support those clubs dropping down to the Championship. The relegation of teams can cause serious financial problems, usually meaning the team has to go part time - that isn’t good for development.
I’d much rather a P&R model, I just don’t think the game is strong enough to support it. So in the medium term I’d advocate a format that allowed the teams the chance to stabilise from Covid and grow. Review after a few years and remove those that are bottom of the pile each year if it is happening.
The strategic thinking behind licensing is that teams should be added every few years, to the point we can support two professional competitions, a SL 1 and SL 2 if you like. But we are a long way from that. So let’s look to add a new club to the top table when finances (TV deal) allows it.
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