Yep you are right, I'm in a dream land we could never aspire to getting anyone else other than Tony Smith and certainly not a top NRL coach with a track record.

I must have also dreamt that Tim Sheens was coaching Hull KR and that he had won 4 NRL Grand Finals with 2 separate teams.

Anyway most of the blinkered on here were advocating more time for Paul Cullen when it was clear he should have gone years earlier. I suspect the same will happen again.

Tim Sheens won trophies but a long time ago, so him going to Salford / Hull KR was more a reflection of the fact he didn't have the top clubs still in for him. Similar to Brian Noble going to Salford or now Toronto or Ian Millward going to Leigh.

If we appointed Sheens, Noble or Millward we would be getting someone with history but would we see that as a positive move forward.

Back in the Cullen era, I agreed with you, we had him about 2 years too long, and he did have his loyalists that would have supported him whatever. With Cullen we were clearly slipping backwards. The peak point of his era was probably Andrew Johns debut at the HJ, from that day onwards there was a steady decline, that was punctuated by the occasional thrilling win, but we were clearly mired around the fringes of the playoffs. With TS, we actually improved over the last 12 months, compared to the year or two before. We topped the league table and reached two finals. Your argument that Smith has gone on too long is based on the fact losing those Grand Finals, plus the fact we lost a couple before. It's not like Cullen where the direction of travel is backwards, the argument about changing the coach here would be if we think something extra is needed to get us over the line in the big ones. It's like Leeds around 2004 where Daryl Powell had got rid of the old Leeds culture of big names that flatter to deceive but was losing finals and semi finals, and Gary Hetherington made a change (ie getting rid of his mate) to bring in someone he thought would bring an edge to take them to the next level, and it worked.

OK. We seem to keep moving the argument though. Firstly it's we can never aspire to get a top NRL coach. Then when I point out that Hull KR have done exactly that it's "we can never get an NRL coach who has won things recently". Incidentally Sheens last GF win was only 2 seasons before Smiths.

Agree about Cullen, we were clearly slipping backward. Despite our squad quality and playing style slipping backward I am not arguing that Smith has gone on too long yet, but if we end this season having failed again we may as well make the change.

I don't remember saying that we couldn't get anyone else other than Smith, just the three that you've mentioned wouldn't leave their NRL clubs to come here at the moment no matter what you say.

When he won the FA Cup not the Premier League title

The post was in reply to the "one game from getting the sack". It took AF 6 years to turn the then basket case of MUFC into serial title winners.

I'm just not persuaded by the argument that we should stick with Smith come what may because Alex Ferguson nearly got the sack.

I enjoy your posts on here and I like your thinking.

To me, fans of all sport and especially the media and a lot of coaches are loath to accept that 'luck' plays a huge part in creating winners and losers. If Gidley had taken a better option on the last play in the GF Tony Smith would have been a winning coach. Nothing whatsoever to do with Smith of course. And Wane would have lost three finals in a row and would have been branded (by many Wigan fans as a 'bottler') as a serial loser.

Coaches pick the team and prepare the tactics and then once the game starts it's out of their hands and subject to the bounce of the ball, refereeing decisions and players making uncharacteristic errors.

All last season I argued on the Wigan board that Wane is the best man for us. And I'm pretty sure that Tony Smith is the right man for Wire. With luck he could have won the treble last year.

Calling for the head of the coach is utter nonsense. The RFL hardly handed Wire an easy start. Away to Cats and then Cas at home with Brisbane in the middle. Wigan got Salford and Widnes (which we nearly messed up). The games against NRL teams take a lot out of the players and you will suffer for a good few weeks yet.

You only get rid of a coach if he is making a complete mess of things - not when you are the most consistent team in the league. Darryl Powell is a poor man's Tony Smith. He offers nothing that TS couldn't do. There is no pressure on him at Cas where success is a top 4 finish. Wire fans, be careful what you wish for I'd say!

really livett is consistent how can you make that statement after 2/3 games as a substitute ????

Well Atkins, Evans and Russell certainly aren't. Only one way to find out.

Livett created more chances in his first 5 touches of the ball than Atkins or Evans did in the entire game. Give the lad a chance, He's been consistent in every game in which he's come off the bench and not looked out of place once. Even the few minutes he played against Brisbane. Either way a member of our back line needs dropping. He Showed great composure and maturity to kick a must kick conversion to bring us within 4 points.

He couldn't really do any worse.

I feel Atkins problem is he knows he's un-droppable. Even when he's been out injured, the second he's fit he's come straight back into the team. Even when his replacement has been doing just as well if not better. He must be on some serious wedge, to constantly feature the way he has done.

I know, but, thought that it was worth a point of order particularly as we have won 'our' FA Cup under TS more than once

Spot on post as is Sally's IMO.

If we stay out of the top 8 in 2017 and limp home in the play offs to retain SL status, then perhaps it is worth a review, but, to argue that unless we win the GF this year then Smith must go is barmy and we'd better have a really good Plan B I'm sorry maybe my expectations are low having won the LLS and gone to two finals but I just can't see the better alternative

Its funny as well how people know that Darrell Powel is available and wants to come to Warrington or that we can attract the best coach from the NRL who also wants to come over here. I don't see any confirmation of the centres and wingers who were knocking on our door in the close season wanting to join to replace Atkins, Evans and Russell. Anyone who thinks TS should be replaced is absolutely mad and anyone who is not happy with the two finals and a LLS needs to save their money and stay at home. We all want the GF but so do the other clubs so why are all other clubs not sacking the coach, Radford should have gone for not getting in the GF after being top all year, Cunningham should as they won nothing, Powell as they didn't win a final, McDerrmot say no more.
It makes me laugh that after 2 defeats to good sides and one away in France some people are doing the same as last season moan moan moan.

Well said Marshman777, actually taking into account real life rather than a wish list ignoring salary cap/availability etc etc

The team did enough to get through the Cats game relatively injury free, they played brilliantly against Brisbane and then dropped their individual efforts against Castleford, that is there for all to see. However, the most notable areas were the centres. How many posters on this subject have been calling for the head of TS? Most want the deficiency sorted by either kicking the current incumbent centres up the arris or blood the young guns and taking the comments of others, blooding the youngsters won't matter too much as its early in the season.

ok so at what point do we decide that smith is not the man to win us the gf?? 10 years of being the nearly men ??? getting to finals is great but its winning them that counts, if we had been robbed in a final or were on the end of some harsh decisions maybe but we have been ahead and lost in finals too many times.


my point is that given the previous 8/9 years incharge we look nowhere near even capable of winning one, and the team today is not a patch on the 2012 team so he has had his chance and not taken it. if Powell Bennet or any other top grade manager becomes available why should we not try to get them to come to warrington?? I don't think theres an immediate rush to replace smith however the reasoning not to does not make sense to me. any new coach or manager would be a risk if they have won a cup does not mean that they will win cups with us same way that a manager who has won noting wouldn't be able to get a side to win the gf. harking back a few years for the cc wins as a reason to keep him on. if smith was as good as some would have us believe then every other team in the super league would be desperate to sign him as would many nrl clubs but they are not.

again I'm nit calling for his immediate sacking but think that its time the club started to look and sound out possible replacements for him irrespective of if he wins a trophy or not this year, the replacement may agree to a move in two years or something not everyone can just walk away from contracts a la denny!!!