So do you honestly think we have the 10th best pack?

I dont, but we have very very ordinary backs and lack penetration at the line.
I dont buy that 'warrington are an attacking side' line.

were one of the best attacking sides in the league when we get into the opposition 20 just our defence lets up down

Sorry, I forgot we were in 1979.

Front Row in The England Squad

Carvell Higham and Morley

they aint there to make up the numbers either like Jon potty mouth Wilkin

I'll leave it at that

Fully fit i'd take our pack over any, even discounting Cayless. Far better quality. Our problem is depth, if we get injuries it is left to Jammer to carry the load alone.

Say no more.

We're not even in the top 5 I bet.
Sometimes I wonder what people watch, at times this year we looked terribly ordinary in the backs, especially from set plays. IMO this year barr King, Briers and at times Bridge our back 7 didn't look threatening.
(Im counting Monas as 9 for the most part)
There was times where we'd dominate periods of games and just couldnt get over the line, Cas H, Leeds H, Hull A (although eventually we scored), Bradford H are a few that sprig to mind

5th in tries scored. 8th in points for. Also only Celtic and Salford have conceeded more points.

This in my opinion is proof of the quality of our pack. Until the last game of the season I was struggling to remember any long range tries we had scored in the leagie, in particular at the HJ.

I may be wrong but it seems that the majority of tries we scored were close range tries meaning that the forwards had invariably moved us into that position.

And to clarify the comments on our poor pack.

Morley
Higham
Carvell
Westwood

all in the England train on squad.
Would expect Morley, Carvell and Westwood to make final 22


L Anderson, one of only 2 English based players in the NZ squad
Ben Harrison, one of the prospects in superleague.

Not bad.

However the link between the forwards and the backs, and the creativity coming from the halfbacks - in particular early in the season,has been atrocious at times this year. We suffered from the age old problem that if Briers didnt play we created nothing. Fortunately steps have been made to rectify this.

So IMO the forwards can hold their heads up high this year but could we see a bit more entertainment/flair from the backline next season please MR Smith.

Theres other packs in the legue like huddersfield who have got them to where they are. The only other team no-one has mentioned that personally is a good pack is Hull Kr so only a line i think we might have the 4th best pack?

A counter arguement to that could be your defensive record. Teams have put more points past Warrington than any other side bar Salford and Celtic. So by your theory they must have made considerable metres against your pack to enable that to happen.

In Morley, Monaghan and Carvell you undoubtedly have a quality starting front row in terms of raw metre munching. But the impact Morley and Carvell being off the field together has is quite profound at times. I remember Saints scored a lot of points through the middle against Warrington this season, including all the tries in the surge away from you after Carvell's gallop. Even the defensive work of Morley and Carvell themselves is questionable.

Confirmation of Warrington's pack's relative weakness defensively could also be found in the missed tackles stats. Morley and Carvell, your best forwards, have relatively poor tackle and missed tackle counts:

Graham 23 missed tackles from 625 - 3.7% missed
Peacock 33 missed tackles from 775 - 4.3% missed
Morley 52 missed tackles from 500 - 10.4% missed
Carvell 46 missed tackles from 461 - 10.0% missed

when did king briers and bridge move into the pack

Moz is a big hard ba'stard with no dummy spits, Graham is a fat, ginger mard with plenty. There the only stats that matter.