This is a good point which often gets missed.

I think in general we overrate our squad. All those threads we have where people say its a selection headache for the coach, how does he fit everyone in because our squad is so good....its more like, we have a lot of good players who are around the same level. Good but not the stars our fans think they are, and wouldn't interest Wigan or Saints.

Price has had us beating a superior Saints side in some big games including at Wembley last year. The idea that we have this title-favourite squad which is being held back by the coach is overblown.

We are about where I thought we'd be at the start of the season, given our squad. I thought we would be around the fringes of the playoffs, have a chance of winning a trophy but not be first or second in line. If you could simulate the rest of the season 100 times in 100 parallel universes, I reckon about 8 to 13 of them would finish in Wire winning the Grand Final.

We have a much better squad than Wigan, Leeds, Catalans and Salford and we’re behind four of them and the other team knocked us out the Challenge Cup.

If the ratio was one for one like this we'd be doing ok.

For every Lee Briers we've signed a Tyrone Roberts.....and a Scott Wilson, Adam Doyle, Kevin Walters, Matt Rodwell, Michael Sullivan....

Even Michael Monghan came as a scrum half, where he was pretty average until he switched to hooker. What if he'd been average there too? Was a slice of luck rather than good recruitment.

The Sergeant Wilson thread hit the nail exactly on the head. The fact that any of us is considering keeping Price after this season if he doesn’t deliver the win is evidence of that.

For me, Price has until the end of the season. We start looking for a new coach now, and we don’t need to be quiet about it. Let Price, the players and other teams know that we’re ready to start winning. If we drop out of reach of a playoff position the he goes on the final hooter. Fitzpatrick can go too - what’s he adding?

We aren’t taken seriously by other teams and other fans because we don’t take ourselves seriously. Some of the fans here are happy with the mediocrity because following a losing team must mean they’re more of a fan.

We need somebody who is going to EXPECT victory from his players. We’ve had teams good enough to win on numerous occasions but it’s been a decade of waiting. Time to try something new. We need a horrible ba$tard - that man is still Wane.

Yep, I’ll give you that one.

We signed Goodwin on the rebound. Leigh got their first.

Exactly mate, we seem to just score off errors and lucky plays/bounces/passes etc we don't often score from set plays or direct running.
Widdop in broken play is amazing, facing a set line he doesn't to have a clue what to do. So many times through the whole team we just pass to a player stood still, who then passes to a player stood still etc etc
I saw about 2 plays that looked practised plays and we made some big yards off them. More of that please.

I know this is tantamount to the satanic verses and I expect that I will need to go into hiding shortly.
I appreciate everything that Simon Moran has done for this club. The players that we have seen and the success that we have had I could not have imagined when there were sit in protests and supporters throwing their season tickets on the pitch.
I do think that Simon Moran is too accessible to the players. When Matty Russell signed I found it odd in an interview that Russell said he had spoken to Moran about the direction of the club which I found a bit odd. If I had heard that from Cameron Smith I would have got it but Matty Russell? I get the impression that he is almost mates with them and that would certainly explain Briers and Westwood being able to secure jobs at the club.
I might be wide of the mark here but I also get the impression that SJM also likes to play football manager (for those old enough to remember the ZX SPECTRUM). From the Andrew John's signing through to Greg Inglis and the reported courting of Cooper Cronk, Even though they are fantastic players it is not how you build a winning mentality and culture.
When I look at Wellens or Radlinski I don't reckon they got a job in their respective clubs because they are a good laugh after a few pints. It is because they are winners and demand success and professionalism. I am sure they are decent blokes
We all know that Westwood and Briers were not the best trainers.
I heard when TS took over that he looked at the wage bill and said wow, some of these players have not got a GF winners ring. Some of those players are still involved with the club in a coaching capacity and still don't have a GF ring

If SJM want to lift the SL trophy then I think he needs to look at his own involvement as well. If we do move in a different direction then maybe a new coach, CEO and new approach because what we have been doing isn't working. This is no criticism of Simon Moran because if Greg Inglis agent bumped into me at Lords and said that GI might fancy a go in SL of course I would be interested but maybe the wise thing to do would be to give the agent the head coaches phone number and say that the Head coach makes the decisions I suspect that happens the other way round.

Many was the time last night, when Gelling, Currie, King (even Hughes) ran across our line looking for an offload, but we looked disinterested/unprepared.

I remember during the period when we were putting big scores on most teams, we had dummy runners in every move. Teams literally had no clue how to stop us. I didn't see many dummy runners last night...plenty of offloads...but at the line you need to create some doubts in the defence ....we are too predictable.

We are the RL equivalent of Butch Wilkins. Only know how to move from side to side.

Said earlier in the week, our attacking line is far too shallow and so they are all static when receiving the ball - We must be a dream to defend against.

Agree with what both you and LG are saying, we don't seem to able to break down opposition in their own 25.

Tony Smith has stated on many occasion that he didn't coach the attack, as he left it to the players. These repeated comments made me wonder who did, within the group of players we had, as they were rather good at it. This squad is competitive and has good ability, in comparison to the current top 4 in SL. But it could be great if we had attacking structures that got even the best defence on the back foot.

So the charge sheet against Simon Moran is:
- he speaks to his players about his plans for the direction of the club
- he plays football manager (although I don't get the reference to ZX Spectrum...FM has been mainly a PC game, Spectrum was stuff like Daley Thompson Decathlon )
- he has signed / targeted world class players
- Westwood and Briers cited as negative examples

As for coaches not having a Grand Final ring as a player, we had Jimmy Lowes but people didn't like him. Saints jettisoned Keiron Cunningham and brought in Justin Holbrook. Holbrook played a handful of first grade games in the NRL and was predominantly a back up. How would international players in the Saints roster be expected to respect him, after they've just had a legend like KC.