So, since I started watching RL in the very late Seventies, we've had several new sides under the name of expansion.

AsLoyd Grosman would have said in Through The Keyhole......Let's look at the
evidence

London...failure, despite rules/special dispensation for them . Now treading water.
PSG. Don't exist anymore
Cardiff. See above,
Southend/Kent Invicta. See above
Mansfield Marksmen. See above
Scarborough. See above
Springfield/Trafford Borough. See above
Carlisle. See above

Are we spotting a trend here, gentlemen?
Add to these, several other name change/town moves, Gateshead, Wales etc.

RL doesn't exactly do expansion well, does it? We couldn't even keep Richard Branson "onside".
We've got Bradford in administration, more times than Joe Grima was infront of the disciplinary commitee.

It's a no from me.

Melbourne Auckland and Catalans seem to show a different trend though and that's because they seem to have a sustainability potential, a proper backer and a decent potential supporter base and player base.

Fair play to London in that respect who despite having no real club and no real supporter base have more people playing the game than many traditional RL towns put together - wasn't it said once on Boots'n'All that there are more Londoners playing RL than Wiganers? Obviously not at elite level but it creates a potential player pool even if it's at amateur and junior levels. So although the team they had was a flop, expansion into the city wasn't! I'd bet there are more Londoners in SL than Warringtonians and we've had a club in the top league for 135 years.

And Toronto seem to have the potential of Melbourne Aukland and Catalans. A backer with a vision, 5000 season cards sold for next season in the third tier with 7000 having shown at interest in one initially. They're already better supported than a few Super League clubs who've existed for well over a century and they haven't even thrown a ball yet.

7500 gates for Canada's international games. That's better than all European countries bar England and France. Unlike the NBA there are no Canadian teams in the NFL (a sport that may be seen as close to RL and why I don't think RL will be a success in the US) and RL is different enough from basketball and their biggest sport NHL for it to gain a real interest in something different.

And Catalans seems to have sparked something in Toulouse who get larger crowds than a few Super League clubs and in the future could get themselves up to the top level (didn't have the team last time out in the Championship but may well in the future).

Newcastle also got a few gates last season larger than a few Super League clubs managed.

Do we know if our games are broadcast in Canada & has the interest come from the public watching RL ? I think there is a golden opportunity though for all sections of the game to play their part to provide the slickest possible sport for the new audience to see...do away with the spoiling tactics that have crept in over the years.

My first question was 'so we should just give up?'
But then I realised it isn't that, we have a guy who is willing to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds, maybe millions?' On this venture, so I guess the question should be what do we have to lose?

Just a point of clarity Catalans is not an expansion. i.e.) the development of a new club in a non RL area. RL has been played in the South of France since the 1930's. There is an Elite 1 and Elite 2 championship. Catalan simply joined SL from the existing French Elite 1 league.

So despite many, many years of trying Super League currently contains no new clubs played in expansion areas. So continual attempts over 30+ years have yielded zip which does seem to back up Lefty's post.

If expansion is what you are after I would advocate trying a different approach - and inside - out expansion. Start by creating out reach teams within striking distance of the core support. Where local rivalries can exist and travelling is not an issue. North Lancashire, Derbyshire, South Yorkshire, North Yorkshire, Staffordshire and take it from there.

So by definition, the South of France is an expansion area, which kick started in the 1930's. Presumably Oz is one also, but starting much earlier.

I don't really understand why we are so negative about spreading the game elsewhere. The problems are undoubtedly challenging as it seems to take a very long period of work and development before you can get a sport off the ground in a new country or region of the world. But it can be done. Argentina now play not just RU, but at international standard. Similarly with Italy. Basketball is very popular in a lot of countries around the world. The list must go on and on....

So clearly if it has been done before, it can be done again. The problems will be different from country to country, and the time period before it takes off is certain to be lengthy, but it can be done. I think Toronto could be a huge challenge but if people are not willing to spend the time and money to tackle development I am pretty sure RL will slowly dwindle and die away. We will become a curiosity sport like the games I used to play in my youth in Ireland -hurling and gaelic football.

Charlie ,you mention the spread of RU & it seems to me that Argentina & Italy among others have benefitted their game as a whole. The two mentioned in particular seem to have brought more handling & running to the game instead of the once endless kick to touch fest.
Toronto seem to have gone all out to make a success of the venture with wide ranging recruitment days including attracting ex NFL players.

Most of these clubs were complete basket cases from the off Springfield borough come on what genius thought that through.

Fulham/London should have worked but moving stadia every year a name change almost as often. ...a team full of Australians and no desire for travel down south or up north by both all fans killed any chance it had.

Most of the above were slapped together teams gambling on a quick win they were never going to get.

I don't know if anyone saw the episode of backchat with the Gloucester all golds owner (a WarringtonIan btw) he's incredibly switched on knows the potential his side have in fan base but won't run before they can walk. But he was genuinely excited for rugby league as a whole in that area. ...

I don't see how Toronto can in anyway be compared to Scarborough pirates. ..
Who lives or even goes to Scarborough anyway....

Catalan dragons are the best thing to happen to rugby league. it is a brand new club whatever people like to think. ...or maybe they dont want to believe there was some legs in clubs merging. ..? ?

I've got some news for you. The 2016 National Hurling League Division 1 in Ireland attracts some bigger crowds than SL. Dublin vs Cork attracted over 20K. It also has a Tier 1 Sponsor in Allianz. The Grand final a few years ago saw 80K attend. So being realistic RL is at the status of "curiosity sport" in the Northern hemisphere. Even the state broadcaster, BBC, just refers to RU as "Rugby" as if league does not exist. If you look at the BBC sports website outside of the NW it is listed under "Other Sports".

Expansion is fine, I'd love RL to be played to capacity crowds all over the UK, Europe and the rest of the world. I am also a realist. There is just limited appeal to RL. Even in the heartlands there is only support for a handful of teams with circa 8-12K fans turning up. Why will it be better elsewhere?

Furthermore it's not like our game is thriving, winning new converts every season. Even long time league supporters are bored with what is served up. We cannot retain our top flair players and games become a stale, predictable, formulaic, dirge that repeats 40 times a game.

Lastly I have limited faith in the leadership and capability of the RL / SL governance to deliver lasting expansion. I only need to look over recent history to cement that view.

I will throw another edge to this argument. So we let Toronto into the league. It's an experiment that will affect the lower league clubs. Next season for teams like Barrow, promotion was a real possibility and now they have this (pretty much) Super League side in their division. How is that fair? I can understand Tolouse because it is being played in a region where rugby is strong in both codes but this Toronto experiment will fall flat on it's face, even if they reach super league. Make a note of the date. In 5 years Toronto will be gone.

You may of course be right about whether Toronto will be here five years time then again you might not but either way does that necessarily prove your point about it being fair to Barrow or anyone else?

I'd like the game be stronger generally and if that includes a new ambitious player whether that is an resurgent Barrow or shiny new Toronto then we should be open to ideas, we can't stay as we are surely?

I'm not sure about how things will work from a practical POV but I'll you what wouldn't be fair and that is asking for new ways to move the game on and then placing restrictions on someone's ambition at the outset....join in but for goodness sake don't have the financial wherewithal (they are self funded aren't they?) to put a decent team together that might attract SL level support you will have to stick around the lower leagues for a bit before you've earned the right for top flight sport

If rl was going to be a genuine success in Barrow fev Whitehaven,Cumbria etc then it would have happened by now, they have not made it to superleague and look nowhere near getting here anytime soon,

We can blame the rfl or a new team with ambition and support, but rls biggest downfall is the apathy of a lot of supporters, not turning out in numbers and supporting their club, not being in superleague is not a reason to turn up and support your club, fans are the bread n butter of most clubs who don't have a millionaire backer. If these clubs had been receiving the local support then sponsorship will naturally follow adding to the coffers allowing for a genuine push for promotion. As a by product the lower leagues would be a lot better and we would have more British lads featuring in super league. But it's not happened and is unlikely to.

It would be good in 10-20 years there's a SL UK SL Canada SL France SL??? And have our own wcc champions league type tournament since the Australians cannot really be bothered about it tho I do feel for rl in France and other country's to really grow they must look to having their own full time professional leagues. Inclusion in ours is going to give exposure but what if vancouver quebec etc want in...

London has been a major success, just not at pro level!

We can say exactly the same thing about London.

It's not apathy it's just that people prefer to do other things than watch RL. We need to face facts - RL just isn't that popular. Probably about 120K people who watch live in the North any given weekend. I think some people on here think not going to the game is like missing out on the Beatles reforming or something.

London has been a success to an extent and for it to progress sustainably a club must emerge organically and not be shoe horned into super league just because it's in London.

A few hundred extra fans every home game would be huge for a lot of clubs outside of super league.

And if rugby league has gone as far as it can then looking abroad is the next option anyway,

It's funny that if successfull toronto could draw more viewing figures than all of the UK clubs in the future....