Got the best coach to try and do it though!

I am sure the change to thw CC final happened in 2005 when Hull beat Leeds at the millenium stadium and one year later when we played Hudds at Twickenham in August.

Whatever happens in our next game it can't be as insane as the last 68 minutes of the Saints game the other night.

Stillins essentially fronted it out after going 8pts down and instead of taking them on at that game to put them back in their box we completely gave up/didn't bother/lost the plot. In the CC Atkins was immense in taking the ball up early in the tackle count allowing the forwards to get themselves set and come flying on to the ball - against Saints the other night I think he touched the ball twice .... what was that about? Briers lost the plot early on as well and tiny Myler was about as cranked up as I've ever seen a man on a pitch. Strange game on our part I have to say but you gotta take your licks and get on with the job next time round, we just seemed to be devoid of fluidity of thinking on the hoof the other night but if I may I'd like to say this - apart from the first 12 minutes Saints essentially beat a garbage team so yay them.

[sizeps - please, please, please will someone at the club get a RU kicking coach on board so that we can convert what we score. It's driving me nuts the amount of points we leave hanging around because we can't stick the ball between the posts.[/size

Wigan will pick the lowest placed team to avoid any motivation/red faces if we lose

HKR looked impressive tonight, whoever plays them next is in for one hell of a game

HKR were impressive in the way they despatched their opponents. However, the game itself was a couple of notches down on the standard of Rugby that Wigan , Saints & Wire have produced this year, and I would expect Wire to see them off comfortably if producing anything close to what they are capable of if they were to meet next week.

But surely a loss to the lowest placed team would be the ultimate in red faces. lets face it, when it comes down to the final playoff week, all 4 teams deserve to be there and all 4 teams are just 80 mins from a GF appearance (and who says its gonna be Wigan?)

This is the problem we had when Long was our kicker

Saints did to us what we did to Leeds at Wembley - soaked up 15 minutes of pressure & then simply did not allow us to play while taking their own chances. Leeds bounced back the week after & I fully expect Wire too as well.

If I was offered a choice now between beating Hull KR/Huddersfield next week, then winning at Knowsley Road the week after and LOSING the Grand Final,

OR

beating HKR/Hudds, then beating Wigan or Leeds the week after and WINNING the Grand Final without playing Saints after they lose to whoever else plays them, I think I would actually choose the winning at Knowsley Road option.

I don't care if that's small time, petty, obsessed, jealous, or whatever other derogatory superlative that could be aimed at me. There will be other Grand Finals to be won, there will never be another game at Knowsley Road, and winning it after sixteen years of torment there really will mean THAT much to me.

If we don't then that ground will haunt me for the rest of my days.

And that is why you are known as the bitters, and that is why you will always be a small club comperad to us. Its that ingrained small time mentality that sees small time victories as more important than the real stuff that matters. The GF will always matter more than a one off game against a rival to any truely proffesional team.

FWIW I have the same frustration with our own fans regarding the attitude towards Wigan. Like you with us, we will always be in their shadow due to the silly little mentaility of so many of our fans.

To be fair it's just my own opinion and I imagine most people on here will disagree with me.

Let me tell you my scouse friend - when we do eventually beat saints in any game, important or not, home or away, it will not classed as a small time victory.

You have to experience it from our side of the fence to understand. It must be the same for you when you face Leeds in a Grand Final.

...............small club mentality also includes taking the view of one individual and declaring it the view of the entire fan base. Even the poster sees the truth of this. As an older fan I've seen Wire beat Saints plenty of times so whether or not we win again at KR before it's knocked down is irrelevant to me.

This type of person is more prevalent in your fanbase than in others. obviously not all fans but a massive hardcore of proven terminally bitter people towards us.