There's nothing wrong with winning it from fifth. People just need to get their head around that fact now that it has happened (twice).

For years it was slightly less controversial because with the exception of Bradford from 3rd in 2005 the winner had always finished at least 2nd, and with the exception of Saints in 2005 the table toppers had always been in the final.

Now that has changed last year and this, all of a sudden it's an embarrassment and bad for the game. Why exactly? As pointed out Chelsea are not the Champions of England but they ARE the Champions of Europe after winning a tournament they qualified to enter without being champions of anywhere. You also don't need to finish top of your Champions League group to end up winning the Champions "League" after the knockout format.

That's an example from football which is presumably where most of these "fans of other sports" come from. There are plenty of other sports that also use play offs to decide their champions.

People always talk about how strong the competition is in the NRL. Well their Minor Premiers don't always win the Grand Final do they? Nor do they then compete in the WCC.

Super League has been very uncompetitive for a number of years - hence the top two contesting the GF more often than not. Now that it's finally got a stronger level of competition with four or five clubs up there in the mix it's suddenly embarrassing and bad for the game is it? How?! Jesus wept!

And weren't Liverpool crowned 'Champions of Europe' when according to the league table they weren't even the best team in Liverpool?

Yes but Chelsea aren't crowned their divisional champions by winning a european tournament on penalty's are they? You're talking about a totally different tournament, against different teams.

The question i get is 'how can Leeds be the champions and the best team, when they cant finish in the top 4'... and the only answer that i can give is that they don't really bother about where they finish in the league... which then brings the question 'well what's the point in having league fixtures then, it all sounds like a load of sh*te to me'.

is there any other answer you can give? is there another reason that Leeds don't finish in the top 4, yet still win the grand final 2 years running?

can you think of any other sport where teams can go through the domestic season without really being that bothered about where they finish?

Well I don't think Leeds deliberately finished fifth to set themselves up with a harder route to the final than the teams above them faced, nor would I feel more confident about our chances next season if we finish fifth than I will if we finish first.

Nonetheless fifth is where Leeds found themselves, and for two years in succession they've dealt with it a lot better than us or Wigan have.

I think part of the problem lies in the name - "Champions". I appreciate that by the correct dictionary definition of the word Leeds are Champions, but I think that for many people the title Champions doesn't sit comfortabley when they are clearly not the best team over the course of the full season.

Perhaps slight renaming/branding is the answer. Wigan Warriors could be Champions by virtue of winning the league whereas Leeds Rhinos would be Super League Winners or Premiers or similar.

Whilst it may be perfectly acceptable in the USA or Australia for a team which is obviously not the best over the course of the full season to be crowned Champions, some of us are still struggling to come to terms with the concept especially as it has only really been an issue over the past 12 months and a few days.

if they changed the format next season to 'only the top 4 go into the playoffs'... do you think Leeds would finish above catalan?

But how can Wire, Wigan and Saints be the champions when they fail to display champion qualities when it really matters.

The problem here is that there is a football mindset - that is where the criticism is grounded. Few other sports decide their champions through a simple top of the league formula.

I don't disagree with any of that... Everyone knows what the play offs are...But can you tell me another sport where teams don't try as hard as they can to finish top of the league table?

What has displaying Champion qualities got to do with anything. You could argue that Bradford displayed champion qualities by getting so close to the playoffs despite their off the field issues and six point penalty. The champions should be the team that are universally acknowledged as being the best. I can accept the fact that Leeds won Super league, and I admit it was a fantastic acheivement to do it from 5th place. They have my heartfelt congratulations, but there is no way that even the most blinkered Leeds fan could realistically argue that over the course of the FULL season they were the best team.

As I implied in a previous post, maybe there should be three competitions, all of which are highly regarded with a decent trophy and medals/rings for the players. In order of importance - Super League Premiers, Super League Champions and Challenge Cup Winners.

[size1.It’s not what you SAY, It’s what you DO
2.It’s not how you START, It’s how you FINISH
3.It’s not who you ARE, It’s who you can BECOME
4.It’s not yet too late (for anyone) to CHANGE[/size

Paste this on the dressing room wall see if it helps.

Exactly.

would point out that the League, due to the magic weekend, also isn't fair.

Leeds, Wigan, St Helens & Hull FC get tough derby games. Warrington, Huddersfield & Catalans get walks in the park against the three weakest sides in the competition.

Make it an old trafford double header, top 4 play off to be champions, 5 to 14 play off and called minor premiers, that way everybody has something to play for all season.

I removed it whilst I did the maths ( not my strong point clearly) and you are right the Wire percentage for the season overall is superior @ 75% they are a great side and worthy CC winners.

I have never said we we were the best team over the full season, that minor title belongs to Wigan, but we are still the SL Champions and still the current World Club Champions.